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Thread: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

  1. #401
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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    I certainly do agree someone was asleep at the switch. Regardless of whatever systems after the bombing attempt worked or not, the screenings BEFORE the plane left Nigeria did not work. That guy should never have been let on the plane.
    but that's just what the partisans are saying

    that, and mr abdulmutallab was no "isolated extremist"

    he was a significantly "connected terrorist"

    the president's a putz

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    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Really? Bush's Homeland Security guy was on Larry King Monday night defending Napolotino's statement and saying it made sense to him.
    She obviously believed it, otherwise, why would she say it!

    Caught being partisan, continuing makes it worse.
    I already noted I'm both Partisan and proud on this one, attacking with guns blazing. The system failed..miserably. Janet boned up and isn't qualified to wash Ridge's laundry. again, you cannot address why Obama is still calling this an isolated incident, you don't want to admit these events are occurring months after Obama's olive branch from Cairo, and you don't want admit Janet was wrong and Obama is as well.

    However, I certainly do agree someone was asleep at the switch.
    How could you not? And given you believe this, the system worked? You're gonna defend Napolotano's statement? You're going to say someone was asleep and then try to agree with Obama that this was an isolated incident?

    Ahem.....lil partisan don't ya think?

    That guy should never have been let on the plane.
    Then why is she saying the system worked and doesn't she have to be dismissed now?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by MC.no.spin View Post
    Informative post. All answers are basically simple ones, and you've stated the problem very clearly here.

    What is the solution?
    It starts with acknowledgement. Muslims want the West to acknowledge that Islam isn't the problem then they have acknowledge that the Sunni is. But since the Sunni make up 80~90 percent of Islam's population, Islam pretty much equals Sunni (which is why all of Islam's prescriptions direct all Muslims towards the Sunni tribe). Hell of a predicament.


    Islam's best kept denial....

    Many of the Taliban were educated in Saudi-financed madrassas in Pakistan that teach Wahhabism, a particularly austere and rigid form of Islam which is rooted in Saudi Arabia. Around the world, Saudi wealth and charities contributed to an explosive growth of madrassas during the Afghan jihad against the Soviets. During that war (1979-1989), a new kind of madrassa emerged in the Pakistan-Afghanistan region -- not so much concerned about scholarship as making war on infidels. The enemy then was the Soviet Union, today it's America.PBS - frontline: saudi time bomb?: analyses: madrassas
    This article has some analyses of these madrasas and include interviews with Vali Nasr, an authority on Islamic fundamentalism.

    It's also interesting and ironic how the Sauds have spread their loyalty insurance. The official Saudi newspaper, Ain Al-Yaqeen described royal expenditures on “education” as “astronomical” in 2002. Over the decades they built 1500 mosques, 202 colleges, and 2000 Muslim schools. How many of these were in Muslim countries? 0. However, they were established throughout non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia, and Asia.

    This is why so many actual terrorists upon the West come from non-Muslim countries. Why they plot across Europe in Muslim ghettos. Why Al-Queda can get away with claiming to know the nobody individuals in London, Spain, Algeria, Yemen, Germany, etc. Fanatics attend these madrassas, which are funded by Sauds and Muslims elsewhere, and they graduate enemies of the West and Saudi Arabia. Irony. Plenty of fanatics merely learn from the graduates on how to properly hate and murder for God.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-01-10 at 05:21 PM.

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Look at the bright side--they did prevent that four year old in his stroller from doing any serious damage.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Spanning the term Sunni Arab loyalists to include Ethiopia, Chad, Somalia, and the Philippines suggests that these militants are banded together under Sunni Islam, and that they reject their selfish desires. I believe this is a fallacy in an analysis of Islamic Extremism.
    Of course they have their own agendas. But they all root it to Sunni fanaticism and reach back to the most extreme of the Sunni tribe to justify it. Without that religious justification as prescribed by Sunni leaders, so much of Islam's religious terror would simply evaporate into mere coups and rebellions. All the nations in the West had selfish desires during both World Wars, but they agreed on distinct things that kept them united. Add in religion as that ultimate tie and you have the Middle East.

    80 to 90 percent of Islam is Sunni so there is a Sunni mentality that runs through the entirety of Islam, especially in this region. Muhammed himself has a Bedouin Sunni root. The explosion of Islam after Muhammed's death swallowed up tribes and brought them into the Sunni fold. No matter their culture or language, God was to hear their prayers in only Arabic and they were to face into the heart of the Sunni Arab capital. I believe there is more to this than just an innocent prescription about God. To say otherwise means that we should consider that the Catholic Church kept God's language in Latin and the path to salvation through a man of the cloth for sincere holy reasons too. But we know better than this. Maybe we should start acknowledgeing that Islam is a religion of man as well.

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    MSgt. Your posts are serious and challenging. Not the usual hatefest. I do think islam needs a reformation too. And I speak as an agnostic Catholic. The Reformation considerably improved the RC Church in time and this should be borne in mind for islamic reformations. Kemal Attaturk also secularized Turkey, which remains an islamic country.

    Islam needs to be challenged. But it needs to be done in a way that will work, not one that will antagonize.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    Kemal Attaturk also secularized Turkey, which remains an islamic country.

    Islam needs to be challenged. But it needs to be done in a way that will work, not one that will antagonize.
    Just to note. . .Moderate Muslim reformers will always antagonize radical Islamists. Turkey is one example. Iran another.

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    Islam needs to be challenged. But it needs to be done in a way that will work, not one that will antagonize.
    Suggestions?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Suggestions?
    Well the post above you. It will be much more effective to engage with the Iranian opposition rather than trash all islam for example. And Scummy, I think we should antagonize islamofascists. That is not the same as antagonizing muslims.

    On the wider question, I think that a more temperate understanding of islamic scrupture would help. There are plenty of hateful Christian scriptures and is inflammatory to get into cherry picking context about the savagery of ancient religions. I think we need to understand the reformist muslims more and engage with them, respecting their religion and encourgaing engagement. We can do this as we are very strong in defending our own Judeo Christian, post enlightenment, secular democratic values.

    What I do know is that millions of Westerners travel and live in muslim countries every day without hostility. Anatagonizing 1.2 billion people to satisfy the testosterone excesses of a few right wingers is just a stupid idea. So we can start with facing down islamophobia and the hate politics it comes with.
    Last edited by Plato; 01-02-10 at 06:44 AM.
    There is a way to gain the whole world. It is to gain the people, and having gained them, one gains the whole world. There is a way to gain the people. Gain their hearts and minds and then you gain them. Mencius

  10. #410
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    Re: Passenger Ignites Explosive on Delta Flight, Al Qaeda Connection Reported

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    Well the post above you. It will be much more effective to engage with the Iranian opposition rather than trash all islam for example. And Scummy, I think we should antagonize islamofascists. That is not the same as antagonizing muslims.

    Hello Plato, Long time no banter. I believe that in our recent history we have taken steps to engage the Iranian dissent, however, we haven't ever done enough to stand behind them and offer much more than lip service. Obama is no better in this regard, and in fact may be worse, because he displays that he doesn't have the fortitude to do much more than straddle the fence, or display weakness.


    On the wider question, I think that a more temperate understanding of islamic scrupture would help. There are plenty of hateful Christian scriptures and is inflammatory to get into cherry picking context about the savagery of ancient religions.

    Christians didn't start this round. This came from Muslim radicals. It does no good to bash Christianity as some kind of willingness offering when your enemy could care less. Muslim radicals are running with free will, and the majority of so called 'peaceful' Muslims are keeping their mouths shut about it. You know what we call that when it concerns a crime committed? Compliancy and it also is a crime.


    I think we need to understand the reformist muslims more and engage with them, respecting their religion and encourgaing engagement. We can do this as we are very strong in defending our own Judeo Christian, post enlightenment, secular democratic values.

    "Reformist Muslims"??? Who might they be? Have we identified any that haven't been killed by the radicals? Who among Islam today is going to stick their neck out in order to bridge an Islamic appeasement toward the Western Infedels? Not one that I can see. So all you have really is Obama sitting at a table begging. Good plan.


    What I do know is that millions of Westerners travel and live in muslim countries every day without hostility.

    Really, do you have figures to back this up? What has been the trend since 2001? I think you pulled that one out of thin air.


    Anatagonizing 1.2 billion people to satisfy the testosterone excesses of a few right wingers is just a stupid idea.

    Fail! A prime example of how self loathing liberals just have to blame America itself for being attacked by radical Muslims on 9/11. What a crock of shi'ite! Tell me Plato, while we are prostrating ourselves in front of our enemy, shall we bare our necks as well to offer them unfettered access? Because after all we are the problem right? I mean if we hadn't forced them to attack us and all....


    So we can start with facing down islamophobia and the hate politics it comes with.

    Ah yes, so your enemy in this struggle, is not with those that killed 3,000 innocents on 9/11 but rather, from within against those that don't believe as you do that you need to appease. Ain't that just great!


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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