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Thread: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

  1. #191
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    We've been trying for years. I spent several years working daily with juvenile offenders and attending our weekly "care treatment team" meetings and all our starry eyed "behavior modification" programs. Hell, I was the leader of the pack. I knew in my heart we could make a change. I was so young then.

    Then I had to work "up on the hill" at MSU (Maximum Security Unit) for the criminally insane two or three days a week or to catch some overtime as the oppertunity presented itself.

    We tried everything. B-mod. Token economy.

    I have just come to the conclusion, just based on my lifetime experiences, that there is just bad people in this world and all the psycho-babble in the world ain't never gonna change it. You can't rehabilitate these people.
    But are the people in the maximum security unit an accurate representation of the prison population as a whole? Most people DO eventually learn to behave themselves. Hell, even the people who commit murders are usually young people, not senior citizens. This indicates that behavior can be changed...and there's usually a bit more nuance than "this guy is evil incarnate."

    (I realize that those statistics may be skewed by the fact that most would-be murderers are usually already in prison by the time they're senior citizens, but I think even taking that into account, a 20-year-old is much more likely to commit murder than a 70-year-old.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America
    I ain't talkin' about some teenager in some local jail sleeping off a drunk driving charge. I'm talking about the hard punks doing hard time. I think the "3-strike" law should be a maximum of 2 strikes myself. Screw 'em. Let them eat swill and drink sewage.
    Three strikes laws are unbelievably stupid. They allow absolutely no discretion on the judge's part, and apply to ALL felonies. YOU might not be talking about a drunk-driving teenager, but that's exactly who the law would apply to. Do you really want to sentence someone to life in prison, and to "eat swill and drink sewage" if they're convicted of three minor felonies when they're in their 20s?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-27-09 at 12:21 AM.
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  2. #192
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    So Corporal America, you admit there are innocent people in prison.

    We have over 2,000,000 people in prison. If even 1% are innocent, that means we have 20,000 innocent people behind bars. Don't you think that's a bit much? What if its YOU who is falsely accused and goes to prison? I bet you'd change your mind on the "eat sewage" thing when its YOUR ASS in the cell with Bubba.

    I have a feeling you're one of these people that talks real big and bad behind the computer because you can be someone you never were in real life, a man. Your ignorance of prison ANYTHING is laughable. You use examples of high security, serious felonies when most people in prison are non-violent. But of course that's news to you. Hell, anything factual about the American prison system would be news to you.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 12-27-09 at 12:36 AM.

  3. #193
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I have just come to the conclusion, just based on my lifetime experiences, that there is just bad people in this world and all the psycho-babble in the world ain't never gonna change it. You can't rehabilitate these people.
    I agree with your point. There are people who are beyond help, and there are criminally insane without a chance of getting their sh** together. My point in the issue at hand is that celebrating cruelty, rape, murder, or any activity along those lines, based on the fact that we think they are scum and they deserve it, reflects badly on us as a society. If I caught someone in the act of molesting my child or grandchild, they wouldn't have to worry about prison because if I had anything to do with it, they would not survive their criminal act. That being said, lots of people are imprisoned for non-violent acts, drugs, fraud, and other financial crimes.
    For the hardened rapists, murders, and other violent offenders, I don't propose that if we just love them, they will see the error of their ways. Instead, I believe that prisons should be more like military institutions, where self-reliance and teamwork are taught, self-control is cultured, and the prisoners are held to high standards. Many of them (but not all) come from really lousy backgrounds with parents who hated them, neglected them, or worse. They had no strong family unit and no structure. Many of them seek gangs to try and get that structure and security they never had. They typically have poor impulse control because it was never taught and modeled to them, and they never learned to respect others nor themselves. What they need is to be thoroughly reconditioned in how to function socially, morally, and productively. What they often get in prison is worse than living in a zoo. They act like animals, while others just look the other way and even give it a seal of approval. It's disgusting, and the way we are approaching the problem seems to be 180 degrees away from what they really need as humans.

    I don't have all the answers, but what we are currently doing is obviously failing miserably.

  4. #194
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    If you put non-violent offenders with the vilolent offenders, they will come out as violent offenders and how does that help society?

  5. #195
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Just to make sure I understand you correctly...are you saying that more gun freedom causes crime?
    (BTW Canada and Switzerland also have very lax gun laws...but without the crime rates that we have.)
    Canadian criminals know people cannot defend themselves... making the greater population targets.

    I was in Canada when this was reported by Canadian papers:

    Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

    statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

    Canada's experience has simply demonstrated that no matter what kind of gun control law a government passes, that law is doomed to failure because instead of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, the law disarms the wrong people. Canada's gun control scheme has not just failed - it has failed disastrously. Clear evidence of that can be found in a comparison of the crime rates for Canada and America.
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  6. #196
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Replace Madoff with an innocent convict and tell me you think its ok to beat people up.

    Prison is supposed to be the punishment, not getting beat up in prison.
    He is supposed to serve time and no where in sentence does it include getting beat up or anything else of that sort.
    You would have to live under a rock not to know what fate you may face in prison these days so it is simple-you do not wanna go there and be subjected to the bad thing? Do not break the law. Seems simple to me.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  7. #197
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    We've been trying for years. I spent several years working daily with juvenile offenders and attending our weekly "care treatment team" meetings and all our starry eyed "behavior modification" programs. Hell, I was the leader of the pack. I knew in my heart we could make a change. I was so young then.

    Then I had to work "up on the hill" at MSU (Maximum Security Unit) for the criminally insane two or three days a week or to catch some overtime as the oppertunity presented itself.

    We tried everything. B-mod. Token economy.

    I have just come to the conclusion, just based on my lifetime experiences, that there is just bad people in this world and all the psycho-babble in the world ain't never gonna change it. You can't rehabilitate these people.

    I ain't talkin' about some teenager in some local jail sleeping off a drunk driving charge. I'm talking about the hard punks doing hard time. I think the "3-strike" law should be a maximum of 2 strikes myself. Screw 'em. Let them eat swill and drink sewage.
    Then something stronger must be tried/done. Personally I've never been big on words convincing criminals of anything. However, actions may be a different story.

    As far as the 3-strikes your out law going down to two...well then I would be in prison still. The crimes that I did happened when I was 18 (im 34 now)..and both of them happened before I was caught. Being in jail for those 3 months did help change me. Now I've got a family and haven't been in trouble with the law since. Nor have I done anything to get into trouble for. Hell I had a PO that had the same attitude as you have here. Said that I would never amount to anything.

    Well he was right in one aspect. Despite me trying I haven't amounted to anything beyond minimum wage jobs.

    So here's what I have to say on it.

    Thanks society for making my life harder just because I was stupid when I was 18. I've owned up to what I did. I've paid my dues and then some. But you will never let me forget it. You will never let me try and do better or become a better person.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  8. #198
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    On a related note.


    Fla. man exonerated after 35 years behind bars
    By MITCH STACY (AP) Dec 17, 2009

    BARTOW, Fla. James Bain used a cell phone for the first time Thursday, calling his elderly mother to tell her he had been freed after 35 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit.

    Mobile devices didn't exist in 1974, the year he was sentenced to life in prison for kidnapping a 9-year-old boy and raping him in a nearby field.
    Neither did the sophisticated DNA testing that officials more recently used to determine he could not have been the rapist.

    "Nothing can replace the years Jamie has lost," said Seth Miller, a lawyer for the Florida Innocence Project, which helped Bain win freedom. "Today is a day of renewal."

    Bain spent more time in prison than any of the 246 inmates previously exonerated by DNA evidence nationwide, according to the project. The longest-serving before him was James Lee Woodard of Dallas, who was released last year after spending more than 27 years in prison for a murder he did not commit.

    As Bain walked out of the Polk County courthouse Thursday, wearing a black T-shirt that said "not guilty," he spoke of his deep faith and said he does not harbor any anger.

    "No, I'm not angry," he said. "Because I've got God."
    The 54-year-old said he looks forward to eating fried turkey and drinking Dr Pepper. He said he also hopes to go back to school.

    Friends and family surrounded him as he left the courthouse after Judge James Yancey ordered him freed. His 77-year-old mother, who is in poor health, preferred to wait for him at home. With a broad smile, he said he looks forward to spending time with her and the rest of his family.

    "That's the most important thing in my life right now, besides God," he said.
    Earlier, the courtroom erupted in applause after Yancey ruled.
    "Mr. Bain, I'm now signing the order," Yancey said. "You're a free man. Congratulations."

    Thursday's hearing was delayed 40 minutes because prosecutors were on the phone with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. DNA tests were expedited at the department's lab and ultimately proved Bain innocent. Prosecutors filed a motion to vacate the conviction and the sentence.
    "He's just not connected to this particular incident," State Attorney Jerry Hill told the judge.

    Attorneys from the Innocence Project of Florida got involved in Bain's case earlier this year after he had filed several previous petitions asking for DNA testing, all of which were thrown out.

    A judge finally ordered the tests and the results from a respected private lab in Cincinnati came in last week, setting the wheels in motion for Thursday's hearing. The Innocence Project had called for Bain's release by Christmas.
    He was convicted largely on the strength of the victim's eyewitness identification, though testing available at the time did not definitively link him to the crime. The boy said his attacker had bushy sideburns and a mustache. The boy's uncle, a former assistant principal at a high school, said it sounded like Bain, a former student.

    The boy picked Bain out of a photo lineup, although there are lingering questions about whether detectives steered him.
    The jury rejected Bain's story that he was home watching TV with his twin sister when the crime was committed, an alibi she repeated at a news conference last week. He was 19 when he was sentenced.
    Florida last year passed a law that automatically grants former inmates found innocent $50,000 for each year they spent in prison. No legislative approval is needed. That means Bain is entitled to $1.75 million.

    The Associated Press: Fla. man exonerated after 35 years behind bars
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  9. #199
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Well he was right in one aspect. Despite me trying I haven't amounted to anything beyond minimum wage jobs.

    So here's what I have to say on it.

    Thanks society for making my life harder just because I was stupid when I was 18. I've owned up to what I did. I've paid my dues and then some. But you will never let me forget it. You will never let me try and do better or become a better person.
    Don't fall in the trap of believing that minimum wage jobs equates to not amounting to "something" or not becoming a better person. A person's worth in real terms is not dependent on money or status- only on one's personal values, attitudes, and actions. Society cannot keep one from trying to be a better person. Your value as a human lies within you and cannot be taken away.
    Last edited by lizzie; 12-27-09 at 12:08 PM.

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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    There seems to be a lot of different versions of what his life is like behind bars. I've read he is he the head don of all the prisoners and they take care of him.

    I've read he had his face smashed in and several of his ribs were broken.

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