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Thread: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Well, he DOES owe a lot of people a lot of money. Looks like he is starting to pay it back, in ass. New poll - How many prison rapes will it take before Madoff is out of debt? My bet is quite a few.
    Yeah, prison rape is so hilarious. Especially when it happens to an old man who hasn't even been convicted of a violent crime himself.
    Some of you guys are absolutely barbaric.
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    When did I ever say that people who had no control of their investments were stupid?

    If you bothered to read the whole thing and take notice that i was referring to the people that invested millions of their dollars into something that could cause them to loose it all just by its very nature.

    Hedge funds are risky by design, they are for rich people who have tons of money to play with and not for retirement funds and money you need.

    "Investing in certain types of hedge fund can be a riskier proposition than investing in a regulated fund, despite a "hedge" being a means of reducing the risk of a bet or investment. Many hedge funds have some of these characteristics:"

    "Leverage - in addition to money invested into the fund by investors, a hedge fund will typically borrow money, with certain funds borrowing sums many times greater than the initial investment. If a hedge fund has borrowed $9 for every $1 received from investors, a loss of only 10% of the value of the investments of the hedge fund will wipe out 100% of the value of the investor's stake in the fund, once the creditors have called in their loans. Leverage can also be achieved through trading on margin. In September 1998, shortly before its collapse, Long-Term Capital Management had $125 billion of assets on a base of $4 billion of investors' money, a leverage of over 30 times. It also had off-balance sheet positions with a notional value of approximately $1 trillion.[12]"

    "Appetite for risk - hedge funds are more likely than other types of funds to take on underlying investments that carry high degrees of risk, such as high yield bonds, distressed securities, and collateralized debt obligations based on sub-prime mortgages."

    Hedge fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    That is but a taste of the risk involved with hedge funds, would you invest your retirement money in that?

    Here is a glance at what you said Harry; notice that there was no Differentiation between headgefund managers and other investors, kinda looks like a pretty big brush to me



    25# I have no sympathy for the people who fell for his scam.

    28# They invested in a hedge fund, not only that but many of them invested their life savings in a hedge fund, one of the riskiest investment vehicles in existence.

    #1 rule of investing, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

    #2 rule of investing, don't invest what you can't afford to loose.

    #32 Nothing justifies them being ripped off but their own reckless behavior has consequences.

    Investing, potentially, millions of dollars with little research behind what your investing in is gigantically stupid.
    A $20 book or a free visit to an investing website would have saved them their heart ache.

    34# I just can't bring myself to cry for those that were screwed by him, they were mostly screwed by themselves, they had the majority of the power in that scenario and they chose to believe fanciful crap instead of making wiser choices.

    37# I have other opinions about those who can supposedly never save but yes they lost mostly to their own stupidity.

    A fool and his money are easily separated and this proves it.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  3. #103
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post

    Here is a glance at what you said Harry; notice that there was no Differentiation between headgefund managers and other investors, kinda looks like a pretty big brush to me



    25# I have no sympathy for the people who fell for his scam.

    28# They invested in a hedge fund, not only that but many of them invested their life savings in a hedge fund, one of the riskiest investment vehicles in existence.

    #1 rule of investing, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

    #2 rule of investing, don't invest what you can't afford to loose.

    #32 Nothing justifies them being ripped off but their own reckless behavior has consequences.

    Investing, potentially, millions of dollars with little research behind what your investing in is gigantically stupid.
    A $20 book or a free visit to an investing website would have saved them their heart ache.

    34# I just can't bring myself to cry for those that were screwed by him, they were mostly screwed by themselves, they had the majority of the power in that scenario and they chose to believe fanciful crap instead of making wiser choices.

    37# I have other opinions about those who can supposedly never save but yes they lost mostly to their own stupidity.

    A fool and his money are easily separated and this proves it.
    Yes, at no point did I say anything about anyone who did not voluntarily invest in his hedge fund, not one single time did I say "people who had no control of their money were stupid for investing in his hedge fund."

    Why? Because it is incredibly contradictory to blame people who had no control of their money.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes, at no point did I say anything about anyone who did not voluntarily invest in his hedge fund, not one single time did I say "people who had no control of their money were stupid for investing in his hedge fund."

    Why? Because it is incredibly contradictory to blame people who had no control of their money.

    That’s right Harry; at no time did you differentiate between the poor souls that were depending on the advice of the managers of their funds and the ones that you perceived as stupid and deserving of losing all of their money for their stupidity.

    You painted all with the same paintbrush. When I pointed this out to you is when you started showing your concerns for the poor souls; hence the jet powered goal post.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yeah, prison rape is so hilarious. Especially when it happens to an old man who hasn't even been convicted of a violent crime himself.
    Some of you guys are absolutely barbaric.
    Being old doesn't make someone a better person, as Madoff so clearly demonstrated throughout his life. Rape is a brutal aspect of prison that needs to be seriously addressed instead of joked about, so I'm really only dealing with the "it's not right because he's old" angle. I'm sure you could think of half a dozen people right off the top of your head who committed acts so heinous that being punished for it at even an advanced age might not bother you so much. Point being, age isn't relevant.

    As for him not being convicted of a violent crime, that too is irrelevant as violence isn't required to destroy other people's lives. With a confident smile and a reassuring word Madoff left a path of ruinin his wake, and he did it all entirely on purpose and for his own profit.

    Did you watch any of the trials and see his reaction to the charges against him as well as his reaction to the victims who were allowed to speak against him? His face was so devoid of emotion he could barely be categorized as human.

    Prisons were built because of people like Madoff.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 12-24-09 at 11:04 PM.

  6. #106
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Welcome to prison culture.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

  7. #107
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    That’s right Harry; at no time did you differentiate between the poor souls that were depending on the advice of the managers of their funds and the ones that you perceived as stupid and deserving of losing all of their money for their stupidity.

    You painted all with the same paintbrush. When I pointed this out to you is when you started showing your concerns for the poor souls; hence the jet powered goal post.
    Don you don't know a damn thing about this stuff and only seem to want to attack me for no real reason.

    Note that I did not blame the people who did not have control of their money.
    Not once did I do that, not one single time.

    You get hung up on one thing and then try to pigeon hole me, sorry you
    have failed.

    People do not ask their pension fund managers what to invest in, the managers do that on their own.
    Pension fund managers are a trusted position which requires them to invest other peoples money by following a code of due diligence.

    That is why they are managers and not consultants.
    Go read a few books on investing and hedge funds before you try to take me on.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 12-24-09 at 11:07 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Being old doesn't make someone a better person, as Madoff so clearly demonstrated throughout his life. Rape is a brutal aspect of prison that needs to be seriously addressed instead of joked about, so I'm really only dealing with the "it's not right because he's old" angle. I'm sure you could think of half a dozen people right off the top of your head who committed acts so heinous that being punished for it at even an advanced age might not bother you so much. Point being, age isn't relevant.
    Fine, substitute "defenseless" for "old." My point still stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    As for him not being convicted of a violent crime, that too is irrelevant as violence isn't required to destroy other people's lives. With a confident smile and a reassuring word Madoff left a path of ruinin his wake, and he did it all entirely on purpose and for his own profit.

    Did you watch any of the trials and see his reaction to the charges against him as well as his reaction to the victims who were allowed to speak against him? His face was so devoid of emotion he could barely be categorized as human.
    None of this justifies assaults and/or rapes, and is just an appeal to emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    Prisons were built because of people like Madoff.
    No they weren't, they were designed to isolate physically dangerous people from society. Why is locking someone in a cage the default punishment for any kind of wrongdoing?
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Fine, substitute "defenseless" for "old." My point still stands.
    Should I care that he's "defenseless"? You're going to have to find a different argument to pique my sympathies. We're talking about a career predator here, not some guy who went to jail for hitting a guy with his car while talking on the cellphone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    None of this justifies assaults and/or rapes, and is just an appeal to emotion.
    Don't pin the rape thing on me. I didn't bring it up or joke about it, and I was quite explicit that it's an issue that I believe needs to be dealt with seriously. And I think you're keeping the rape angle alive to distract me from the fact that the nonviolence of his crime was irrelevant. (In other words, an appeal to emotion).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No they weren't, they were designed to isolate physically dangerous people from society.
    Only "physically?" I'm pretty sure that since laws were written down on a piece of rock people have been going to prison for more than just violent crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why is locking someone in a cage the default punishment for any kind of wrongdoing?
    You're smarter than this. Don't engage in these straw men.

  10. #110
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    Re: Bernard Madoff beat up in USA Prison

    Kandahar,

    Not that i believe BM deserves to be raped, and beat up constantly; but there are people who are wrongly convicted, or unable to afford the legal costs necessary to beat the charges. Enforcing his rights should be the very lowest priority for society.

    Given the fact that the he admitted his crime... i can only view this as less than collateral damage. If he happens to get raped, beaten, extorted, etc..., i could care less. Lesson learned: scam billions and the consequences will be severe.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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