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Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

It would work. Too bad the republicans didn't do it when they had the support after 9/11. This is the only country I know where they let you stay illegally.

In theory I support your position because we should enforce our borders. However, it is unworkable for three basic reasons: 1) Politics; the Dems will never allow this because they are working to legalize these people as potential voters as about 65% would be reliable Democratic voters. 2) It is logistically impossible. We don't have enough federal employees who could begin to tackle the problems. 3) The lawyers and courts would tie this up for decades. Each one would have to be given their "rights" as they are on American soil. Perhaps you have heard of the 9/11 terrorists. They are now afforded the same rights we have as per the U.S. Supremes.

The only way I know this could be accomplished would be to build a wall around our southern border but it will be vigorously attacked as anti-Hispanic and politically unacceptable. And it would have to be secure in such a way that it could not be breached by tunneling under it.

The great irony is that Mexico defends its southern border with Guatemala vigorously and anyone coming into Mexico is thrown under the jail. We are probably the only nation in the world that has so little regard for our status as a nation and its borders. One can probably thank Ted Kennedy for this current state of affairs. One can read what he said back in the 1960s when immigration "reform" wasn't supposed to change our national make-up substantially. Of course now, as we can easily see, it was yet another huge Democratic lie as they build their voter base by any means necessary.

"Senate floor manager and Camelot knight-errant Ted Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, assured jittery senators that "our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually." Senator Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, further calmed that august body, insisting "the total number of potential immigrants would not be changed very much." Time has proven otherwise. Average immigration levels before the 1965 amendments took effect hovered around 300,000 per annum. Yet 1,045,000 legal immigrants flooded our cities in 1996 alone."


FrontPage Magazine - The 1965 Immigration Act: Anatomy of a Disaster
 
But that still begs the question: What if families who choose to,
Well, guess who forks the bill when someone from that family has to get emergency medical treatment? You and I do. Anyways, it is just plain dumb to go without medical insurance, no matter how healthy you feel.

or out of necessity, are unable to purchase health insurance??
Provisions are in the bill to provide support for families that cannot afford insurance.
 
Well, guess who forks the bill when someone from that family has to get emergency medical treatment? You and I do. Anyways, it is just plain dumb to go without medical insurance, no matter how healthy you feel.
Therein lies the rub. A person's personal decision trumped yet again by the "governmetn who knows what's best for you".


Provisions are in the bill to provide support for families that cannot afford insurance.
Translation: more big daddy gubment welfare, as if we don't have enough social welfare spending already. Pathetic.
 
In theory I support your position because we should enforce our borders. However, it is unworkable for three basic reasons: 1) Politics; the Dems will never allow this because they are working to legalize these people as potential voters as about 65% would be reliable Democratic voters. 2) It is logistically impossible. We don't have enough federal employees who could begin to tackle the problems. 3) The lawyers and courts would tie this up for decades. Each one would have to be given their "rights" as they are on American soil. Perhaps you have heard of the 9/11 terrorists. They are now afforded the same rights we have as per the U.S. Supremes.

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Wrong. It is entirely possible to deport them. It is done every day. It doesn't take courts or rights. Take away the reasons they come and most will leave on their own.
You blame the democrats but it's the republicans that want them here for the cheap labor. The GOP blocked immigration reform at every turn.
 
Take away the reasons they come and most will leave on their own.

That's true. The laws are on the books to do so. But there is no will in either party to do it.
 
Wrong. It is entirely possible to deport them. It is done every day. It doesn't take courts or rights. Take away the reasons they come and most will leave on their own.

You blame the democrats but it's the republicans that want them here for the cheap labor. The GOP blocked immigration reform at every turn.

Gimme a break. The GOP can't do anything to block immigration reform. If the Dems wanted to reform it they would do so but they don't even talk about it.

This is entirely a problem of Democratic shenanigans and the biggest villain was Ted Kennedy who was not above anything to accomplish his ends including lying through his teeth to escape going to jail on manslaughter charges.
 
Gimme a break. The GOP can't do anything to block immigration reform. If the Dems wanted to reform it they would do so but they don't even talk about it.

This is entirely a problem of Democratic shenanigans and the biggest villain was Ted Kennedy who was not above anything to accomplish his ends including lying through his teeth to escape going to jail on manslaughter charges.

Republicans had a long time before the democrats took over to do so, and didn't. That's a simple fact.
 
Republicans had a long time before the democrats took over to do so, and didn't. That's a simple fact.

They never had the necessary majorities plus they also had several "Rinos" like Arlen Spector who wouldn't have supported it anyway. They never had 60 votes to my knowledge and wouldn't have gotten them had they had 60 votes unlike the Dems who will do anything to get their way.
 
They never had the necessary majorities plus they also had several "Rinos" like Arlen Spector who wouldn't have supported it anyway. They never had 60 votes to my knowledge and wouldn't have gotten them had they had 60 votes unlike the Dems who will do anything to get their way.

Blame it on anything you want, make any excuses you want, but they made no such move. They have no more will than the democrats. That's just the simple fact.
 
Blame it on anything you want, make any excuses you want, but they made no such move. They have no more will than the democrats. That's just the simple fact.

There is no intention; never mind "will" on the part of the Democrats. They want to legalize these illegal immigrants for their votes and they will probably succeed. At least 65% are automatic Democratic votes by all measures taken thus far.
 
There is no intention; never mind "will" on the part of the Democrats. They want to legalize these illegal immigrants for their votes and they will probably succeed.

Not among republicans either. Remember Bush's stance on illegal immigration? There's no way to honestly make this issue partisan. Neither party really wants to end it. There's no getting around it.
 
Not among republicans either. Remember Bush's stance on illegal immigration? There's no way to honestly make this issue partisan. Neither party really wants to end it. There's no getting around it.

Bush would have been crucified had he pushed this. And he never had the votes. One who tried in the House in Arizona lost his seat over this issue. McCain; the titular head of the Republicans, walked on eggshells over this issue.

The Democrats will NEVER do anything about this even if they had all 100 votes in the Senate and 435 votes in the House. And Obama would never sign such a bill if given to him. They want the votes. They will never give up that advantage. Because they control big city party machinery they regularly manufacture votes to steal elections, raising the dead, voting early and often many times and keeping polls open after the legal closing time as they round up the voters they need. That's what they did to get that clown elected in Minnesota; Al Franken. They stole the governorship in Washington. God only knows how many more elections they have stolen. They are past masters at this and always have been. The Republicans are mere amateurs and nincompoops.
 
Gimme a break. The GOP can't do anything to block immigration reform. If the Dems wanted to reform it they would do so but they don't even talk about it.

This is entirely a problem of Democratic shenanigans and the biggest villain was Ted Kennedy who was not above anything to accomplish his ends including lying through his teeth to escape going to jail on manslaughter charges.

The republicans want the ilegals here just as much as the democrats. Face reality. Just once.
 
It's not always poor choices. Many times it's circumstances beyond their control. Illness, job loss, accident, divorce etc.
Our economy is based on debt. Without credit the economy will collapse.
Our entire culture promotes lending and debt. You can't have both.

Of course you can, people who recklessly go into debt face the consequences of their actions and those that don't face of their actions.

Do you think rewarding excessive usage of credit will stop excessive usage of credit?
 
Bush would have been crucified had he pushed this. And he never had the votes. One who tried in the House in Arizona lost his seat over this issue. McCain; the titular head of the Republicans, walked on eggshells over this issue.

The Democrats will NEVER do anything about this even if they had all 100 votes in the Senate and 435 votes in the House. And Obama would never sign such a bill if given to him. They want the votes. They will never give up that advantage. Because they control big city party machinery they regularly manufacture votes to steal elections, raising the dead, voting early and often many times and keeping polls open after the legal closing time as they round up the voters they need. That's what they did to get that clown elected in Minnesota; Al Franken. They stole the governorship in Washington. God only knows how many more elections they have stolen. They are past masters at this and always have been. The Republicans are mere amateurs and nincompoops.

Whether he would have or wouldn't have been crucified means nothing. He did in fact want to make many legal, and make it easier to have them here working for cheap labor. Again, no will by the republican party. This problem isn't new. Republicans had the power once and didn't use it. This is not a partisan issue.
 
Of course you can, people who recklessly go into debt face the consequences of their actions and those that don't face of their actions.

Do you think rewarding excessive usage of credit will stop excessive usage of credit?

Most do not recklessly go into debt. Buying a home is not reckless.
 
Most do not recklessly go into debt. Buying a home is not reckless.

Buying too much home for your income is reckless, buying a home using an adjustable rate mortgages is reckless when you don't understand how they work.

Most do recklessly go into debt otherwise they wouldn't be having problems paying their debts.
 
The republicans want the ilegals here just as much as the democrats. Face reality. Just once.

This is absolutely untrue.

This line has been pedaled for years. It goes like this. The meat packers and other unskilled manufacturers want them here because of their low wages and because they can cheat these workers because they have no recourse. That is the general line of thinking.

Now think about this.

None of the major employers in the U.S. could afford to practice this as company policy or they would be blasted once the truth came out. So we hear of some small time meat packer in the middle of nowhere that got busted and suddenly it is big news in the liberal press that the republicans want to continue to get this cheap labor.

There simply is not enough of these employers and these illegal immigrants could never pass through their hiring process of legitimate concerns.

The second class are the small independent operators like landscapers, contractors and the like who hire these people where they congregate as day laborers and the like. Restaurants use them. Individuals use them to clean homes and cut lawns. The police know they are here and where they congregate. There is no secret about this and in some cities they are offered shelter and fed out of humanitarian concerns. The police will not become involved and pass it off to the INS which overworked to begin with. The problem is effectively ignored as a practical reality.

We could go down every single registered employer in the United States and ferret out those who MAY have such a policy and the numbers wouldn't fill a small thimble.

This is a Democratic scheme; pure and simple. They control off the House, the Senate and the WH and enough of the Supremes will never permit draconian measures to remove them from the United States.

There are millions of "anchor" children here who are American citizens while their parents are illegal immigrants. The political firestorm that would erupt if these parents would be ejected while leaving these children behind would never permit anything substantive to happen. Ted Kennedy rules from the grave and has effectively split this nation down the middle. A dead man has more actual power than most living politicians. Just invoke his name and the discussion turns in his favor. It is his lasting legacy.

This is reality. Face it -- just this once.
 
The Wall Street Journal reports that House conservatives are saying "people who refuse to buy health insurance could spend five years in prison," an overhaul critique that has also cropped up in the Senate on the eve of its own floor debate. Like an earlier accusation that reform would create government "death panels," the claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Fact Check: Could Skipping Insurance Mandate Lead To Jail Time? - Shots - Health News Blog : NPR

Well as long as there is a fine for not having insurance then you can go to jail for not paying the fine for not having insurance.
 
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