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Thread: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

  1. #361
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think we all can agree that implementing broad tax hikes in a recession is a bad idea. So do you think that instead of plunging head long into an expensive program that is going to cost great amounts of money should be done right, instead of fast?


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    Who decides what is right?

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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Who decides what is right?

    When it is right, we'll know it. Does this current steaming pile seem right to you?


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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think we all can agree that implementing broad tax hikes in a recession is a bad idea. So do you think that instead of plunging head long into an expensive program that is going to cost great amounts of money should be done right, instead of fast?


    j-mac
    I see no evidence taxes matters one way or another. I think if you look, you'll fine we've had hard times with high taxes and without, and we've seen good time with high taxes and without. Taxes are far less a problem than other factors.

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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I see no evidence taxes matters one way or another. I think if you look, you'll fine we've had hard times with high taxes and without, and we've seen good time with high taxes and without. Taxes are far less a problem than other factors.

    Like I said before, you are more than free to send in your surplus money to the government. So you do that?

    I on the other hand, like to keep, and spend the money I work for thank you.


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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Like I said before, you are more than free to send in your surplus money to the government. So you do that?

    I on the other hand, like to keep, and spend the money I work for thank you.


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    I pay my taxes and vote for those people who spend it the way I think appropriate. You should do the same.

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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I pay my taxes and vote for those people who spend it the way I think appropriate. You should do the same.

    So you don't send in any extra? Why not?


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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So you don't send in any extra? Why not?


    j-mac
    Actually, I do have extra taken out.

  8. #368
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only to a point, and few do. If you can't speak, and no one has access to your wishes, which is common in emergency situations outside the hospital, you get treated. Thousands get spent before anyone is aware.
    In that case you're not talking about heart transplants. The average bill for those types of situations is only 30-40 thousand at most. I could pay that off easily in my lifetime. Tons of other people could also. IF they are willing to man up and take responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. But I doubt it, but know most could not.
    Then they and I would more than likely die. No one has a right to others services.

    You see the major problem here isn't that people can't pay. Because they can for most of your normal emergency visits. The problem here is that we have created a society that does not take responsibility for their bills. We have allowed this by allowing them to take advantage of a system that was designed to help those that actually need it. Welfare and bankruptcy laws for the most part. I doubt anyone really minds paying for those that actually need help. But we are also paying for those that can help themselves but don't. Close off that ability and you will find that people will start paying themselves instead of relying on you to do it. Which means that the costs incured for people not paying will drop.

    This is of course just part of the problem.

    The other part is how health insurance is regulated. Most states will not allow you to buy health insurance across state lines. This allows those that are corrupt to chase away any competition and then increase the rates. This is evidenced by car insurance. It cost me $920 to get full coverage car insurance for a year. It would cost me over $2000 for health insurance for just 6 months. You can buy car insurance across statelines. You cannot for health insurance. It is because of the monopoly that insurance companies have in individual states that allows them to charge so much. What the government should do is allow competition..if necessary split up those companies that have a monopoly. This would make health insurance more affordable for everyone.

    The next part of the problem is law suits.

    There are too many lawyers that are doing nothing but filing frivilous lawsuits against both hospitals AND the doctors. Even if a lawsuit is not successfull it still costs the hospital and doctor's money. What they need to do is give hospitals and doctors some kind of protection from frivilous lawsuits. I saw nothing in regards to this in that HCB. Have you?

    All of the above can lower health care costs and health insurance and it can do it without mandating health insurance.

    You've based your whole premise on a "what if" scenario. Totally ignoring that by mandating insurance you trample on other peoples rights to not pay for something that they do not want. Also totally ignoring that the "what if" scenario" that you talk about has an opposite side to it.
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    In that case you're not talking about heart transplants. The average bill for those types of situations is only 30-40 thousand at most. I could pay that off easily in my lifetime. Tons of other people could also. IF they are willing to man up and take responsibility.
    Of course there is more than just heart transplants. That was just one example, and only of cost.

    But many really could afford the cost of emergency treatment which could also get quite expensive, depending on what was needed.


    Then they and I would more than likely die. No one has a right to others services.

    You see the major problem here isn't that people can't pay. Because they can for most of your normal emergency visits. The problem here is that we have created a society that does not take responsibility for their bills. We have allowed this by allowing them to take advantage of a system that was designed to help those that actually need it. Welfare and bankruptcy laws for the most part. I doubt anyone really minds paying for those that actually need help. But we are also paying for those that can help themselves but don't. Close off that ability and you will find that people will start paying themselves instead of relying on you to do it. Which means that the costs incured for people not paying will drop.

    This is of course just part of the problem.

    The other part is how health insurance is regulated. Most states will not allow you to buy health insurance across state lines. This allows those that are corrupt to chase away any competition and then increase the rates. This is evidenced by car insurance. It cost me $920 to get full coverage car insurance for a year. It would cost me over $2000 for health insurance for just 6 months. You can buy car insurance across statelines. You cannot for health insurance. It is because of the monopoly that insurance companies have in individual states that allows them to charge so much. What the government should do is allow competition..if necessary split up those companies that have a monopoly. This would make health insurance more affordable for everyone.

    The next part of the problem is law suits.

    There are too many lawyers that are doing nothing but filing frivilous lawsuits against both hospitals AND the doctors. Even if a lawsuit is not successfull it still costs the hospital and doctor's money. What they need to do is give hospitals and doctors some kind of protection from frivilous lawsuits. I saw nothing in regards to this in that HCB. Have you?

    All of the above can lower health care costs and health insurance and it can do it without mandating health insurance.

    You've based your whole premise on a "what if" scenario. Totally ignoring that by mandating insurance you trample on other peoples rights to not pay for something that they do not want. Also totally ignoring that the "what if" scenario" that you talk about has an opposite side to it.
    Tort reform has been addressed in more than a few states with no effect on costs. You can check that out.

    And while I'm not opposed to interstate purchasing of insurance, I doubt it would solve any more problems than tort reform.

    As for cost, I beg to differ. Most really can't add thousands of dollars to their monthly budget, especially since they are likely to need services agains before they get things paid off. It isn't like much of this is one time and you get the rest of your life to pay. It's on going and something that would build if tackled the way your propose.

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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I see no evidence taxes matters one way or another
    LOL!

    thus spake john maynard

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