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Thread: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

  1. #131
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    It is re-occurring and it is a tax. Every year you don't get insurance you pay the tax. If you don't pay the tax you face the fines and jail time.
    fine - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    3 a : a sum imposed as punishment for an offense b : a forfeiture or penalty paid to an injured party in a civil action

    Even the language in the bill calls it a fine, what is it with people and reading comprehension.

    And why would be fined for this hmmmm?

    Because you don't have insurance, if anything your arguing over semantics and not reality as there is no threat of fines or imprisonment until they made it illegal to not have insurance.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #132
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    Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's a fine not a tax, taxes are reoccurring and fines are based on instances of non compliance, like speeding or in this instance not purchasing health insurance.

    If you don't pay the fine because you didn't buy the insurance then you can go to jail.
    The fine is paid in a tax. Read it.

    What? The House bill would require people to either buy insurance, or face a special 2.5 percent income tax. People who don't buy insurance AND refuse to pay the tax would face the standard punishment for knowingly evading taxes, which is listed in the Internal Revenue Code. By that logic, any change to the tax code could lead to criminal penalties.

  3. #133
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    handwritten letter from thomas barthold, chief of staff for joint tax cmte, saying there are fines and potential jail time for those who refuse to play

    http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Polit...old_letter.pdf

    Buy Insurance or Go to Jail? - The Note

    asked last month about jail time for nonconformists, ms pelosi said she thought such a punishment was "very fair"

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Pelosi On Jail Time For No Health Care: "The Legislation Is Very Fair In This Respect"

    more from the jtc:



    Big Government Blog Archive Committee Confirms: Comply With Pelosi-Care Or Go To Jail

    president obama, inteviewed by abc in november, when asked about jail time explained his broad belief that "penalties are appropriate"

    pressed by abc's sunlen miller to focus on prison time, he diffidently waved it off as not "the biggest question" he's facing right now

    he is, after all, we all know, very busy

    and HE HAS health care

    threats of jail time not really one of his priorities, he says

    what an unbelievably thoughtless statement

    Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? - Political Punch
    from your link:

    In a handwritten letter, Barthold told Ensign that under an existing provision of the Internal Revenue Code, willful failure to pay a fine can result in being charged with a misdemeanor which could carry a penalty of up to $25,000, or up to a year in jail, or both. The handwritten letter was a follow-up to an answer that Barthold gave Ensign during Thursday's mark-up of the Baucus bill.
    Internal revenue, fine on not paying a tax. This is existing law. Not the penalty for not having insurance, but for not paying the tax.

  4. #134
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The fine is paid in a tax. Read it.

    What? The House bill would require people to either buy insurance, or face a special 2.5 percent income tax. People who don't buy insurance AND refuse to pay the tax would face the standard punishment for knowingly evading taxes, which is listed in the Internal Revenue Code. By that logic, any change to the tax code could lead to criminal penalties.
    If the tax/fine is solely based on the fact that your not buying insurance then it true that you can go to jail if you don't buy insurance.

    It's not sensationalist its a logical conclusion.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #135
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    from your link:



    Internal revenue, fine on not paying a tax. This is existing law. Not the penalty for not having insurance, but for not paying the tax.
    tell it to pelosi and obama

    call it what you will, it's a road that starts with a mandate to buy a product and ends in jail if you don't

    good luck selling that to the once enthusiastic but famously flighty youth vote

  6. #136
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    the most effective (indeed, the only attempted) defense of THIS BILL on this thread:

    republicans are just as bad

    reid's bill is evidently indefensible

  7. #137
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    tell it to pelosi and obama

    call it what you will, it's a road that starts with a mandate to buy a product and ends in jail if you don't

    good luck selling that to the once enthusiastic but famously flighty youth vote
    I don't have to tell it to anyone. More likely the quotes you have are out of context, or maybe even misleading on their part. What matters are the facts. The fact is the penalty is a 2.5% tax. You have to not pay your tax, or the fine associated with the tax in order to go to jail. You don't go to jail for not having insurance.

  8. #138
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If the tax/fine is solely based on the fact that your not buying insurance then it true that you can go to jail if you don't buy insurance.

    It's not sensationalist its a logical conclusion.
    No, it isn't. It's true that any tax or fine you don't pay could land you in jail. They wouldn't be going to jail for not having insurance.

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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The fact is the penalty is a 2.5% tax. You have to not pay your tax, or the fine associated with the tax in order to go to jail.
    out of context?

    LOL!

  10. #140
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    Re: Senate OKs health care measure, reaching milestone

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it isn't. It's true that any tax or fine you don't pay could land you in jail. They wouldn't be going to jail for not having insurance.
    The fine is totally based on the fact that you didn't buy insurance.

    Taxes are general payments to the government for non competitive goods and services.

    lets make this totally clear,

    Fines = punishment for specific things.

    Taxes = reoccuring payments for general government goods and services.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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