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Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

EpicDude86 said:
While we're at it, let's pushe Universal Car Care from the Government too, because many people's cars, especially those whom depend on their car most, go without this care and eventually it will cost them much more down the road, and unlike medical care, when your car breaks, there's no law requiring a mechanic to fix it.

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!

UNIVERSAL CAR CARE NOW!
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I wonder how it would look if we took what it cost per year per car to buy, maintain, fuel, insure, etc. a car, and compared it to what it cost to purchase health insurance for a typical family.
Could it be that our priorities are skewed?
 
Boo Radley said:
I said creative, not silly and Beckish. :roll:
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List of Political Party Platforms (say that five times fast)
Political Party Platforms

Democrat one here: Democratic Party Platforms: 2008 Democratic Party Platform

Here is the Socialist Party's platform circa 1928

1. "Nationalization of our natural resources, beginning with the coal mines and water sites, particularly at Boulder Dam and Muscle Shoals." (Boulder Dam, renamed Hoover Dam, and Muscle Shoals are now both federal government projects.)
2. "A publicly owned giant power system under which the federal government shall cooperate with the states and municipalities in the distribution of electrical energy to the people at cost." (Tennessee Valley Authority.)
3. "National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication." (Railroad passenger service is completely nationalized through Amtrak. Some freight service is nationalized through Conrail. The FCC controls communications by telephone, telegraph, radio, and television.)
4. "An adequate national program for flood control, flood relief, reforestation, irrigation, and reclamation." (Government expenditures for these purposes are currently in the many [non-adjusted] billions of dollars.)
5. "Immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works …" (In the 1930s, WPA and PWA were a direct counterpart; now, a wide variety of other programs are.) "All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions." (The Davis-Bacon and Walsh-Healey Acts required contractors with government contracts to pay "prevailing wages," generally interpreted as highest union wages.)
6. "Loans to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works and the taking of such other measures as will lessen widespread misery." (Federal grants in aid to states and local municipalities currently total [non-adjusted] tens of billions of dollars a year.)
7. "A system of unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system)
8. "The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor." (U.S. Employment Service and affiliated state employment services administer a network of about 2,500 [in 1980] local employment offices.)
9. "A system of health and accident insurance and of old age pensions as well as unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system.)
10. "Shortening the workday" and "Securing to every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week." (Legislated by wages and hours laws that require overtime for more than forty hours of work per week.)
11. "Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment." (Not achieved as amendment, but essence incorporated in various legislative
12. "Abolition of the brutal exploitation of convicts under the contract system and substitution of a cooperative organization of industries in penitentiaries and workshops for the benefit of convicts and their dependents." (Party achieved, partly not.)
13. "Increase of taxation on high income levels, of corporation taxes and inheritance taxes, the proceeds to be used for old age pensions and other forms of social insurance." (In 1928, highest personal income tax rate, 25 percent; in 1978, 70 percent; in 1928, corporate tax rate, 12 percent; in 1978, 48 percent; in 1928, top federal estate tax rate, 20 percent; in 1978, 70 percent.)
14. "Appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all land held for speculation." (Not achieved in this form, but property taxes have risen drastically.)

from Libertarian Majority: Socialist Party Of America 1928 Platform



"The American people do not want government to solve all our problems; we know that personal responsibility, character, imagination, diligence, hard work and faith ultimately determine individual achievement."

Odd, This doesn't seem like the Democrat party that is in 'power'...
 
j-mac said:
You know I've been pondering this for a while now. Isn't it strange how in the Global warming debates, 'man is the problem', but inversely in this debate 'we must save man'..... How does that square?

Could it possibly be that those who are in agreement with Hugo Chavez that Capitalism is the root of evil today, that we must destroy it?

And how better to accomplish this than to attack it on several fronts and overwhelm the system.


j-mac
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No, that's just silly. Man doesn't seem at all willing to save himself in either. And no one is proposing or suggesting anything that would relate to Chavez in any way. To even bring up his name is to say, "let's skip debate and jump right into silly hyperbole." :roll:
 
EpicDude86 said:
List of Political Party Platforms (say that five times fast)
Political Party Platforms

Democrat one here: Democratic Party Platforms: 2008 Democratic Party Platform

Here is the Socialist Party's platform circa 1928

1. "Nationalization of our natural resources, beginning with the coal mines and water sites, particularly at Boulder Dam and Muscle Shoals." (Boulder Dam, renamed Hoover Dam, and Muscle Shoals are now both federal government projects.)
2. "A publicly owned giant power system under which the federal government shall cooperate with the states and municipalities in the distribution of electrical energy to the people at cost." (Tennessee Valley Authority.)
3. "National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication." (Railroad passenger service is completely nationalized through Amtrak. Some freight service is nationalized through Conrail. The FCC controls communications by telephone, telegraph, radio, and television.)
4. "An adequate national program for flood control, flood relief, reforestation, irrigation, and reclamation." (Government expenditures for these purposes are currently in the many [non-adjusted] billions of dollars.)
5. "Immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works …" (In the 1930s, WPA and PWA were a direct counterpart; now, a wide variety of other programs are.) "All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions." (The Davis-Bacon and Walsh-Healey Acts required contractors with government contracts to pay "prevailing wages," generally interpreted as highest union wages.)
6. "Loans to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works and the taking of such other measures as will lessen widespread misery." (Federal grants in aid to states and local municipalities currently total [non-adjusted] tens of billions of dollars a year.)
7. "A system of unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system)
8. "The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor." (U.S. Employment Service and affiliated state employment services administer a network of about 2,500 [in 1980] local employment offices.)
9. "A system of health and accident insurance and of old age pensions as well as unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system.)
10. "Shortening the workday" and "Securing to every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week." (Legislated by wages and hours laws that require overtime for more than forty hours of work per week.)
11. "Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment." (Not achieved as amendment, but essence incorporated in various legislative
12. "Abolition of the brutal exploitation of convicts under the contract system and substitution of a cooperative organization of industries in penitentiaries and workshops for the benefit of convicts and their dependents." (Party achieved, partly not.)
13. "Increase of taxation on high income levels, of corporation taxes and inheritance taxes, the proceeds to be used for old age pensions and other forms of social insurance." (In 1928, highest personal income tax rate, 25 percent; in 1978, 70 percent; in 1928, corporate tax rate, 12 percent; in 1978, 48 percent; in 1928, top federal estate tax rate, 20 percent; in 1978, 70 percent.)
14. "Appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all land held for speculation." (Not achieved in this form, but property taxes have risen drastically.)

from Libertarian Majority: Socialist Party Of America 1928 Platform



"The American people do not want government to solve all our problems; we know that personal responsibility, character, imagination, diligence, hard work and faith ultimately determine individual achievement."

Odd, This doesn't seem like the Democrat party that is in 'power'...
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None of those are proposed today by anyone. Like I said, silly Beckishism. I can't take this seriously until someone starts dealing in reality.
 
UtahBill said:
I wonder how it would look if we took what it cost per year per car to buy, maintain, fuel, insure, etc. a car, and compared it to what it cost to purchase health insurance for a typical family.
Could it be that our priorities are skewed?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm. That's a good idea. Let's just make up a hypothetical if we can't get any good statistics. say someone with a 14,000 brand new car that gets about 25-30mpg, gas at the current national average, they drive approximately 600 miles per month, and since it's new, maintenance for the year is probably...let's see 4 oil changes a year at 30 bucks a pop, maybe a new tire for a flat so that's another $175, maybe a little for brakes and fluid flush so...Let's go with $120 + $175 + $300 = $595 as maintenance for one year with pretty crappy luck of one flat tire and some above and beyond maintenance? Now at 600 miles a month, divide that by 25 and you get 24 gallons of gas a month at at current gas prices that's about 2.50 a gallon (AAA Fuel Gauge Report) and we get 60 bucks a month in gas. So that's $720 a year...

$14,000 + $595 + $720 = $15,315 the year that the car is purchased, and given some elbow room we'll say it's about $1000-1500 a year barring any major emergency repairs or increases in gas prices.


Anyone want to alter these statistics and can anyone come up with some "average cost of health care" per year stats?
 
EpicDude86 said:
I smell a troll. or an alternate account...
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Can't help what you think you smell, but facts are facts. Nothing happening today is new or any more socialistic than we've seen for decades from all parties. And to be so devoid of imagination as to repeat the same garbage this country has been slinging since before the civil war is just sad. You don't like democrats. We get it. You disagree on policy, fine. No objection here. But please try to do so based on factual substance and not this Beckish silliness. And if you must go the fantasy route, be creative, come up with something new, something not a hundred or so years old. :roll:
 
Boo Radley said:
Can't help what you think you smell, but facts are facts. Nothing happening today is new or any more socialistic than we've seen for decades from all parties. And to be so devoid of imagination as to repeat the same garbage this country has been slinging since before the civil war is just sad. You don't like democrats. We get it. You disagree on policy, fine. No objection here. But please try to do so based on factual substance and not this Beckish silliness. And if you must go the fantasy route, be creative, come up with something new, something not a hundred or so years old. :roll:
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Alright, well there's this new theory I've been working on.

It's called Nannyism, and the Democrat party is keen on it.
 
Boo Radley said:
None of those are proposed today by anyone. Like I said, silly Beckishism. I can't take this seriously until someone starts dealing in reality.
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Give Obama and his Obammunists enough terms in office, and they would.
 
American said:
Give Obama and his Obammunists enough terms in office, and they would.
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Nah, but watching you get hysterical about it would alone make it worthwhile.
 
Redress said:
Nah, but watching you get hysterical about it would alone make it worthwhile.
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Oh I'm not hysterical, not like you got over a silly joke.
 
I didn't say I made it.
 
I see why Nelson now supports this bill.

Nebraska Gains in Nelson Compromise

By Greg Hitt

The state of Nebraska is going to do well under the compromise struck by Democratic Sen. Ben Nelson to ensure his support for health overhaul legislation. In the final deal-making, the senator won a commitment that the federal government would pick up Nebraska’s share of the bill’s proposed expansion of Medicaid, the federal-state health program for the poor.

---------------
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Yup these are the folks liberals are proud of.
 
Corruption is alive and well in the Democrat controlled Congress...Despite promises to the contrary.
 
So when are they voting?
 
American said:
Try to keep up, eh?
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I always assume you are wrong, so don't pay much attention. What do you want my opinion on specifically? Speak up or let it go.
 
Redress said:
Not only inaccurate, but over the top rhetoric. Let me give you an example from my own experience. My father went to the doctor because he started to have a bunch of little brown bumps on the skin of his abdomen.
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Right, and under UHC he wouldn't have an appointment in a week, try three months from Tuesday provided there's a cancellation or death from the wait.
He could do this because to visit the doctor was 10 dollars through his health coverage. Turned out, he had non hodgkins lymphoma....cancer.
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Which was great that it was found in a timely manner, may not have been such a fast process under a socialized medicine country.
He got a fair number of years that he would not have had simply because he was able to go to the doctor for what he thought was a minor problem. Charity medical clinics are not somewhere you go for things like this. Charities are great, but they do not solve all problems.
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That's a great point, so then why do you want the federal government to create a defacto charity system nationwide, and furthermore why would you want a Washington beaurocrat making your health choices?
Now you can disagree with the health care proposals, I got no problem with that. I am not entirely sold on either, and am opposed to a single payer or public option, at least at this time. This does not mean that there are not both real need for reform, and real reasons why some one might support these bills.
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So where is the reform in this bill? And I want specifics.
Stupidity like saying people should be locked up for voting for this is over the top, and just lowers the level of discourse.
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I never said they should be locked up for voting for it, but you did conveniently pass over my stating specifically that in the process of buying off representatives there have been kickbacks issued, there have been unethical behaviors, etc. If I, as an agent used money or other financial perks to induce a person to do business with me, or to otherwise influence the final deal, I get to go to prison, so why should these dishonest scumbags get a break?
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LaMidRighter said:
Right, and under UHC he wouldn't have an appointment in a week, try three months from Tuesday provided there's a cancellation or death from the wait. Which was great that it was found in a timely manner, may not have been such a fast process under a socialized medicine country. That's a great point, so then why do you want the federal government to create a defacto charity system nationwide, and furthermore why would you want a Washington beaurocrat making your health choices?
So where is the reform in this bill? And I want specifics. I never said they should be locked up for voting for it, but you did conveniently pass over my stating specifically that in the process of buying off representatives there have been kickbacks issued, there have been unethical behaviors, etc. If I, as an agent used money or other financial perks to induce a person to do business with me, or to otherwise influence the final deal, I get to go to prison, so why should these dishonest scumbags get a break?
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Hi, we are talking about the health care bills in the house and senate. neither has UHC. Care to talk about what is actually proposed?
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Redress said:
Hi, we are talking about the health care bills in the house and senate. neither has UHC. Care to talk about what is actually proposed?
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So they can't just add UHC later when they feel the public has accepted the fallout from this? Is that what you want to go on record as saying? Also, what specifically will this bill reform? Second request.
 
LaMidRighter said:
So they can't just add UHC later when they feel the public has accepted the fallout from this? Is that what you want to go on record as saying? Also, what specifically will this bill reform? Second request.
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This answer depends on what version of the bill you are talking about. Subsidies for the poor to help with insurance, not allowing pre-existing condition exceptions(which I think is a significant gain), a clearinghouse for easing getting insurance from a nonprofit insurance company among other things. I am far from an expert on the topic, and am ambivalent about the bills so far. I think some things being done are good, some are not so good, and some things not done should be(some tort reform for example).
 
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