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Thread: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The largest thing I think we see differently here is that you seem to see government as the answer to problems, and I see it AS the problem.


    j-mac
    No, I see us as the government. We the people, a government of the people, by the people, for the people (grew up repeating that). I believe it. And I believe we can solve problems by working through the government. It is not the only way, nor should it be, but it is a way.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I see us as the government. We the people, a government of the people, by the people, for the people (grew up repeating that). I believe it. And I believe we can solve problems by working through the government. It is not the only way, nor should it be, but it is a way.

    Yeah, a proven inefficient way. What in today's government leads you to believe that the current government is "Of, by, and for" the people anymore. They blatantly ignore the wishes of the people.


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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, a proven inefficient way. What in today's government leads you to believe that the current government is "Of, by, and for" the people anymore. They blatantly ignore the wishes of the people.


    j-mac
    It's pretty inefficient what we're doing right now. We can't even monitor how much is charged due to treating people who can't pay. What does a bandaid cost at a hospital?

    We can do better.

    And yes, republicans have ignored the wishes of the people who wanted a public option, doing away with pre-existing conditions (which can't be done without a mandate that everyone is insured), and much of what Obama wanted.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    ben nelson, joe lieberman, mary landrieu, blanche lincoln, kent conrad...

    bluedogs, freshmen, omnipresent olympia...

    obama himself...

    they're the ones who dispatched the pretty PO

    get real

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I see us as the government. We the people, a government of the people, by the people, for the people (grew up repeating that). I believe it. And I believe we can solve problems by working through the government. It is not the only way, nor should it be, but it is a way.
    If that were true then why is it that every poll that I look at the majority of people DO NOT want the currently proposed health care bill?

    Let me guess, because it's been dragging on for so long and because of the "lies" spread by republicans right?

    I agree that the Government is suppose to be Of the people, By the people, and For the people. But reality shows that it is no longer this way.
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If that were true then why is it that every poll that I look at the majority of people DO NOT want the currently proposed health care bill?

    Let me guess, because it's been dragging on for so long and because of the "lies" spread by republicans right?

    I agree that the Government is suppose to be Of the people, By the people, and For the people. But reality shows that it is no longer this way.
    I've explained this a few times. The opposition has made it one ugly process and democrats haven't helped much.

    However, when ever polls ask specific questions, like do you want the public option, the answer has been yes for a majority. When asked do you want to do away with pre-existing conditions, they want that. On the details, for the most part, the people are much closer to Obama's view. So, a government of the people goes for what they want, even if it looks like they don't with misleading polls. And if they get it wrong, we vote them out.

    And were there some lies? Yes: Death panels, rationing, going to jail, socialism. Yes, there have been lies. Some by some republican leaders. And yes, democrats have not always been completely honest either. But you really have to work to get worse than the death panel whopper.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've explained this a few times. The opposition has made it one ugly process and democrats haven't helped much.

    Utter MSNBC BS! Tell me what it is that you think repubs hold so much power over when they are not even allowed into the closed door sessions that hammer out the bill?


    However, when ever polls ask specific questions, like do you want the public option, the answer has been yes for a majority. When asked do you want to do away with pre-existing conditions, they want that. On the details, for the most part, the people are much closer to Obama's view.

    Again, not truthful at all. Polls on specifics show that the people don't want government control of their personal health care. Polls on specifics show that the people don't want to give up what they currently have. Polls on specifics show that the people believe that the current system can be fixed without a total takeover. Polls on specifics show that the people believe that the demo's have not been truthful with them on what is happening.....Shall I continue?


    So, a government of the people goes for what they want, even if it looks like they don't with misleading polls. And if they get it wrong, we vote them out.

    Misleading polls eh? I bet those are all polls that don't show support for Obama's agenda concerning health care reform right? And you problem about waiting until we can vote them out is the damage they can reap in the mean time.


    And were there some lies? Yes: Death panels, rationing, going to jail, socialism. Yes, there have been lies. Some by some republican leaders. And yes, democrats have not always been completely honest either. But you really have to work to get worse than the death panel whopper.

    No, these were not lies. Rationing is a reality in every publicly offered health care system in the world. All these things are points about Obama's plans that you wish to marginalize, but they are very real, and likely possibilities.


    j-mac
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, these were not lies. Rationing is a reality in every publicly offered health care system in the world.
    True, Canada is trying to semi-privatize their system currently because of overburdensome cost, France is having major budgetary problems with their health system, Cuba has a two tier system(those with power get great care, everyone else gets sub-par care), England has well documented care gaps, etc. etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    True, Canada is trying to semi-privatize their system currently because of overburdensome cost, France is having major budgetary problems with their health system, Cuba has a two tier system(those with power get great care, everyone else gets sub-par care), England has well documented care gaps, etc. etc.

    That's right, but we aren't supposed to look at those, because the maga brains in the halls of corruption have a better idea. Only problem is that they won't share it with anyone, even their colleges.


    j-mac
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Utter MSNBC BS! Tell me what it is that you think repubs hold so much power over when they are not even allowed into the closed door sessions that hammer out the bill?
    We're talking about public perception j. You're being kind of misleading here with this comment. It was the death panel, rationing, and socialism type misinformation that clouded everything. The ability to cloud, as we've seen over the years, is not limited to those in power.



    Again, not truthful at all. Polls on specifics show that the people don't want government control of their personal health care. Polls on specifics show that the people don't want to give up what they currently have. Polls on specifics show that the people believe that the current system can be fixed without a total takeover. Polls on specifics show that the people believe that the demo's have not been truthful with them on what is happening.....Shall I continue?
    We've seen the polls and what I said is exactly accurate. You're truthful claim is rather a subjective type of thing that also doesn't dispute the fact that they want those items. Again, you point to a criteria directed related to what I said went wrong, actually supporting my claims.



    Misleading polls eh? I bet those are all polls that don't show support for Obama's agenda concerning health care reform right? And you problem about waiting until we can vote them out is the damage they can reap in the mean time.
    You misread the polls. Again, look at when asked about specifics. To rebut me, you have to do that.



    No, these were not lies. Rationing is a reality in every publicly offered health care system in the world. All these things are points about Obama's plans that you wish to marginalize, but they are very real, and likely possibilities.


    j-mac
    No it's a lie. Government would no more ration that your insurance company does right now. Neither gives us our absolute free rain, but neither do what would actually be rationing. It's a lie your side uses to cloud the issue.

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