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Thread: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    For others that may want some added clarity.

    The federal government is now going to force private citizens to buy a commodity. This is a first in American history. Before... every purchase was by choice. It is a very dangerous precedent.

    Why not force citizens to buy guys for homeland protection?

    Why not force citizens to buy electric cars for clean air?

    Why not force citizens to by stopping smoking patches for their own health?

    Why not force citizens to by jogging shoes to stay healthy?

    We should never set the precedent that private citizens are forced to by any private commodity. The government was supposed to answer to us, this is a perverse change that is highly destructive if allowed to happen. For the good of the nation, I hope an honest court receives this case and upholds over 200 years of jurisprudence.
    Well, do we have to pay others over those things? That is the common thread that the premise for both auto insurance and health insurance is based on.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    True.

    Using the ER as a clinic

    More insured and uninsured consumers are getting their primary care in emergency rooms, wasting $14 billion every year in health care spending.

    "This is an inappropriate use of the ER," said Dee Swanson, president of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. "You don't go to the ER for strep throat."

    Since emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, Swanson said providers ultimately find ways to pass on the cost for treating the uninsured to other patients, such as to those who pay out-of-pocket for their medical care.

    Dees also took issue with consumers who don't get primary care for their diabetes or blood pressure on a timely basis, hence finding themselves in the ER.

    "Going to the doctor for strep throat would cost $65-$70. In the ER, it's $600 to $800," he said.

    Health care's six money-wasting problems - Aug. 10, 2009

    Using the emergency room as a clinic

    Because emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, more insured and uninsured patients are getting their primary care in emergency rooms. An emergency room visit for a routine condition can cost 10 times what the same medical care would cost at an urgent care clinic. Not only are unnecessary emergency room visits a waste of medical resources, many uninsured patients cannot or do not pay their emergency room bills, and medical providers ultimately find ways to pass on the costs to insured patients and uninsured patients who do pay out-of-pocket.

    Health-Care Dollars down the Drain


    However, this does seem like something that is self evident. Nothing is free. Cost has to be made up somehow.
    Just a note about this. I know the above is a problem but having the gov't in charge doesn't necessarily solve the problem. My family and I use the Emergency Room more *BECAUSE* we have government health care (my husband is in the military). Gov't doctors work shorter hours and don't have an answering service for after hours or weekend calls. You're told to go to the ER. Well, there is a dial-a-nurse but due to legal reasons they no longer can give much useful advice. Most of it is stuff you can figure out yourself reading a Tylenol bottle, for example, so you're on your own if your kid has a high fever or something. I've had those dial-a-nurses say, "well, can't you call your doctor?" and I have to say "No, we're military". They're sympathetic but it doesn't really help. It was the same when we were stationed in Germany and used their health care system Gov't run health care is gov't run health care no matter where you are, imo.

    We're currently stationed in a town too small for a military clinic and are using a civilian/non-gov't clinic and it is like heaven compared to what we are used to. So, no ER visits :-) Much longer hours at the clinic and the people treat us so much better. I'm going to be sad if the gov't takes over more of this country's health care. Bad things happen when the gov't is in charge. That has been my experience for the past 16+ years, FWIW.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your use of the word primary made me think for a second, can it be significant without being primary? Again, I'm not arguing it is the only problem, but a significant one.


    Why Are Health Costs Rising?

    March 15, 2007 | Author: Devon Herrick

    Testimony for Submission to the
    House Education & Labor Subcommittee on
    Health, Employment, Labor and Pensions
    Insurance Coverage for the Uninsured
    Hearing held on March 15, 2007

    Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, please accept my comments for the record regarding the March 15, 2007, hearing about providing health insurance for the uninsured. My comments focus specifically on the issue of health care prices. As was pointed out by many of the witnesses during the hearing, the price of health care is a significant issue to consider as the Subcommittee discusses health care reform.

    Prices for medical services have been rising faster than prices of other goods and services for as long as anyone can remember. But the Subcommittee should consider that not all health care prices are rising. Although health care inflation is robust for those services paid by third-party insurance, prices are rising only moderately for services patients buy directly. For example, the real (inflation-adjusted) price of cosmetic surgery fell over the past decade - despite a huge increase in demand and considerable innovation.

    Health Care Costs Rise When Others Pay. A primary reason why health care costs are soaring is that most of the time when people enter the medical marketplace, they are spending someone else's money. When patients pay their own medical bills, they are conservative consumers. Economic studies and common sense confirm that people are less likely to be prudent, careful shoppers if someone else is picking up the tab. Thus, the increase in spending has occurred because third parties - employers, insurance companies or government - pay almost all the bills.

    The Extent of Third-Party Payment of Medical Bills. Although polls show that many people fear they will not be able to pay their medical bills from their own resources, the reality is that most people pay for only a small portion of their medical care:

    For every $1 worth of hospital care consumed, the patient pays only about three cents out of pocket, on the average; 97 cents is paid by a third party.
    For every $1 worth of physician services consumed, the patient pays less than 10 cents out of pocket, on the average.
    For the health care system as a whole, every time patients consume $1 in services, they pay only 14 cents out of pocket.
    Thus, from an economic point of view, the incentive for patients is to consume hospital services until they are worth only three cents on the dollar, on the average. The incentive is to consume physicians' services until they are worth only 10 cents on the dollar. And for the health care system as a whole, patients have an incentive to utilize everything modern medicine offers until the value to them is only 14 cents out of the last dollar spent.

    Medical Inflation. Health care costs over the past 40 years have risen as the proportion of health care paid for by third parties has increased. Prior to the advent of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965, health care spending never exceeded 6 percent of gross domestic product. Today it is 16 percent. These two government programs unleashed a torrent of new spending and led to rising health care prices. For instance, a recent study by Amy Finkelstein of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology found that half the growth in health care expenditures was due to Medicare. There has also been an increase in tax-subsidized employer spending on health care. These two factors, rather than the cost of new technology and drugs, explain why health care costs outpace inflation.


    ------------------
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dix View Post
    Just a note about this. I know the above is a problem but having the gov't in charge doesn't necessarily solve the problem. My family and I use the Emergency Room more *BECAUSE* we have government health care (my husband is in the military). Gov't doctors work shorter hours and don't have an answering service for after hours or weekend calls. You're told to go to the ER. Well, there is a dial-a-nurse but due to legal reasons they no longer can give much useful advice. Most of it is stuff you can figure out yourself reading a Tylenol bottle, for example, so you're on your own if your kid has a high fever or something. I've had those dial-a-nurses say, "well, can't you call your doctor?" and I have to say "No, we're military". They're sympathetic but it doesn't really help. It was the same when we were stationed in Germany and used their health care system Gov't run health care is gov't run health care no matter where you are, imo.

    We're currently stationed in a town too small for a military clinic and are using a civilian/non-gov't clinic and it is like heaven compared to what we are used to. So, no ER visits :-) Much longer hours at the clinic and the people treat us so much better. I'm going to be sad if the gov't takes over more of this country's health care. Bad things happen when the gov't is in charge. That has been my experience for the past 16+ years, FWIW.
    That's a different problem altogether. There are problems with the military that are specific and not related to what we would see outside the military.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, do we have to pay others over those things? That is the common thread that the premise for both auto insurance and health insurance is based on.
    No we do not. I know plenty of people that do not own guns.

    You are trolling.

    My father does not have to buy auto insurance. Under this law he is forced to buy health insurance. As soon as we do that to one citizen we have subverted the constitution.
    "Political bias optional, civility a must" - DebatePolitics.com

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More like the cost of paying for your accident is to car insurance what making others pay for your care is to health insurance.
    How exactly is it that everyone theoretically pays for those without insurance? Is it because these uninsured parties get operations, set the hospitals or doctors back, who then pass on the cost to those who pay for insured people, i.e. the Insurance Companies and Government programs? And is the amount of money lost each year really a significant percentage of all the money made in the health care industry? I mean, I never have heard anyone complain about people stealing health care. Is this because it always gets paid for one way or another?

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    No we do not. I know plenty of people that do not own guns.

    You are trolling.

    My father does not have to buy auto insurance. Under this law he is forced to buy health insurance. As soon as we do that to one citizen we have subverted the constitution.
    OK, you lost me. This makes non sense at all.

    He will use the health care system at some point. If he is not independently wealthy, he won't be able to afford it. If he can't afford it, we will pay for it.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    How exactly is it that everyone theoretically pays for those without insurance? Is it because these uninsured parties get operations, set the hospitals or doctors back, who then pass on the cost to those who pay for insured people, i.e. the Insurance Companies and Government programs? And is the amount of money lost each year really a significant percentage of all the money made in the health care industry? I mean, I never have heard anyone complain about people stealing health care. Is this because it always gets paid for one way or another?
    I did address this earlier. If you use a provider and can't pay for it, costs are passed along to those who can pay, either themselves or through your insurance. Also, by not being able to do preventive care, they are sicker and require more, which again is a cost picked up by others.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    OK, you lost me. This makes non sense at all.

    He will use the health care system at some point. If he is not independently wealthy, he won't be able to afford it. If he can't afford it, we will pay for it.
    You're a troll. Sorry... I am not biting.



    You are not even clever... as far as trolls go.
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    You're a troll. Sorry... I am not biting.



    You are not even clever... as far as trolls go.
    I don't follow you. Maybe you just don't want to address the substance. That's fine if that's the case. But at least admit it.

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