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Thread: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

  1. #191
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    I wonder what the payout/denial rate is for Auto Insurance vs Medical Insurance? And on average which costs more and is used more?
    It would be interesting to see. I would guess medical.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you didn't pay them, they did. Providers raised prices to cover those who didn't pay. Premiums went up due to those pay cost hikes. Everyone who is insured or can pay for their own, pays for those who can't pay. And maybe more than they would if they paid a tax.
    Just words..........Unless there is evidence.
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Just words..........Unless there is evidence.
    True.

    Using the ER as a clinic

    More insured and uninsured consumers are getting their primary care in emergency rooms, wasting $14 billion every year in health care spending.

    "This is an inappropriate use of the ER," said Dee Swanson, president of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. "You don't go to the ER for strep throat."

    Since emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, Swanson said providers ultimately find ways to pass on the cost for treating the uninsured to other patients, such as to those who pay out-of-pocket for their medical care.

    Dees also took issue with consumers who don't get primary care for their diabetes or blood pressure on a timely basis, hence finding themselves in the ER.

    "Going to the doctor for strep throat would cost $65-$70. In the ER, it's $600 to $800," he said.

    Health care's six money-wasting problems - Aug. 10, 2009

    Using the emergency room as a clinic

    Because emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, more insured and uninsured patients are getting their primary care in emergency rooms. An emergency room visit for a routine condition can cost 10 times what the same medical care would cost at an urgent care clinic. Not only are unnecessary emergency room visits a waste of medical resources, many uninsured patients cannot or do not pay their emergency room bills, and medical providers ultimately find ways to pass on the costs to insured patients and uninsured patients who do pay out-of-pocket.

    Health-Care Dollars down the Drain


    However, this does seem like something that is self evident. Nothing is free. Cost has to be made up somehow.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    While you're right that driving is optional, that is what makes it optional to buy insurance.
    Thank you for admitting the point finally. That was all that mattered in your post the rest was meaningless legally. What someone can or cannot afford has zero legal bearing.

    You realize we are discussing a legal point here?

    How old are you? Teen, Twenties, etc???

    I am not trying to be insulting.... I just want to understand the audience.
    "Political bias optional, civility a must" - DebatePolitics.com

    The Truth

  5. #195
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Thank you for admitting the point finally. That was all that mattered in your post the rest was meaningless legally. What someone can or cannot afford has zero legal bearing.

    You realize we are discussing a legal point here?

    How old are you? Teen, Twenties, etc???

    I am not trying to be insulting.... I just want to understand the audience.
    No, you're not following. It isn't about what they can afford, entirely. It is what it costs others. You have it wrong. The legal premise is the same.

    Fifty one.

  6. #196
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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    True.

    Using the ER as a clinic

    More insured and uninsured consumers are getting their primary care in emergency rooms, wasting $14 billion every year in health care spending.

    "This is an inappropriate use of the ER," said Dee Swanson, president of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners. "You don't go to the ER for strep throat."

    Since emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, Swanson said providers ultimately find ways to pass on the cost for treating the uninsured to other patients, such as to those who pay out-of-pocket for their medical care.

    Dees also took issue with consumers who don't get primary care for their diabetes or blood pressure on a timely basis, hence finding themselves in the ER.

    "Going to the doctor for strep throat would cost $65-$70. In the ER, it's $600 to $800," he said.

    Health care's six money-wasting problems - Aug. 10, 2009

    Using the emergency room as a clinic

    Because emergency rooms are legally obligated to treat all patients, more insured and uninsured patients are getting their primary care in emergency rooms. An emergency room visit for a routine condition can cost 10 times what the same medical care would cost at an urgent care clinic. Not only are unnecessary emergency room visits a waste of medical resources, many uninsured patients cannot or do not pay their emergency room bills, and medical providers ultimately find ways to pass on the costs to insured patients and uninsured patients who do pay out-of-pocket.

    Health-Care Dollars down the Drain


    However, this does seem like something that is self evident. Nothing is free. Cost has to be made up somehow.
    Seems like a drop in the bucket to me.

    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Just words..........Unless there is evidence.
    Just saw this:

    It is a simple fact that it is the uninsured who are driving up the cost of healthcare for everyone.

    Here are the facts.

    In 2005, there were 44.8 million who had no medical insurance. In 2006, that number had grown to 47 million. Presently, it is estimated that there are 50 million who have no coverage, and that number will rise to over 52 million at the end of 2010.

    As a former director of a hospital emergency department seeing over 50,000 patients annually, I am very aware of how the medical system works.

    Anytime an uninsured person enters a hospital emergency department and registers in, the minute they cross the threshold, the hospital is mandated to (1) evaluate, and (2) make a disposition of the individual.

    That disposition may be to: (1) reassure that no treatment is required; (2) provide appropriate treatment; (3) admit to the facility; or (4) make a referral.

    If the hospital is unwilling to evaluate and make a disposition, it will lose reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid programs, which is tantamount to financial suicide.

    No matter what the ultimate disposition, the hospital incurs costs that are not reimbursed.

    Hospitals have huge fixed costs which must be covered in order to operate the facility. Also, hospitals must have available resources to constantly be able to invest in new technologies in order to best provide service for those seeking care.

    Thus is set in motion the unrelenting, upward spiral of ever-increasing medical costs.

    1. The uninsured numbers are constantly increasing.
    2. The unreimbursed expenses incurred by hospitals in treating those ever-increasing numbers of the uninsured are constantly increasing.
    3. Hospitals must increase their charges in order to cover the ever-increasing costs of treating the uninsured.
    4. Medical insurance companies must increase the premiums of those they insure in order to pay for the increased hospital charges when their insureds seek treatment.
    5. Each time insurance premiums increase, another portion of the population opts out of carrying insurance. Individuals or companies reach a point, finally, when they can no longer afford insurance, and individual policyholders or employees of companies which drop their benefits enter into the pool of the uninsured.
    6. More uninsured people = increased, unreimbursed hospital costs = increased hospital charges = increased insurance premiums = more uninsured people.... The upward spiral is incessant.

    The pressure created by the ever-increasing number of the uninsured is the driving force behind the ever-increasing cost of medical care in the United States. That force is unrelenting. It can only accelerate. It has created a system which is unsustainable.

    One ER doc's take on what's driving healthcare costs inexorably higher | Opinion L.A. | Los Angeles Times

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Seems like a drop in the bucket to me.

    So, your argument is if there is more than one cause, it isn't valid?

    A few of those actually relate to my argument. The ER was just one example. If you look, what I linked included those. All of it is related to not being able to pay for proper treatment at some level (doesn't mean everyone can't, but many can't). .

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    If you drive you are required to have insurance beacuse you are putting others at risk each time you get out on the road, and there are millions of people doing this at a time across the nation.

    With Health care...well...we don't always need it all the time, and it's more for if we ourselves get sick. And there's no privilege we're being granted that requires the responsibility of having health care.

    but that's really not an argument for or against, it's just kinda eh.
    People do need healthcare all the time. Ever heard of something called preventive medicine? You need to go to doctor and get those annual check-ups.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, your argument is if there is more than one cause, it isn't valid?
    I see no evidence that the other money wasters are primarily from the uninsured.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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