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Thread: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which is why the public option was actually necessary. They way insurance works best is to have a large pool, and it has to include healthy people paying. Without this, benefits are less and the need to ration is greater.
    well, there is no PO

    not here in reality, anyway

    which is why, with the class act imposing hi premiums relatively on the young invulnerables and lower rates on the more infirm, "benefits," as you say, "are less and the need to ration is greater"

    the whole scheme depends on massive cuts to m and m which aint gonna happen

    when they don't go down, the deficit explodes

    same with the doc fix

    universal coverage, to oblivious obama, simply means---you kids go out and buy it, all of you

    that's universal

    good job, dems

    once more, congrats

    live it, love it

    INCUMBENT byron dorgan TRAILS some generic north dakota republican by TWENTY TWO

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    dodd's dead

    INCUMBENT blanche lincoln trails by 6

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    RealClearPolitics - Latest Election Polls
    Last edited by The Prof; 12-22-09 at 01:42 AM.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I am speaking of large companies that are not dropping insurance for their employees. People keep talking about a public option for competition. States regulate and establish what insurance companies can charge.

    Look at the legislation out there now, with all the special interest waste. Imagine if the whole health care system was run by these people. Costs would skyrocket.

    Everyone says there is tremendous waste in Medicare, do you think a public option would not have the same problem.
    There's waste in the private sector as well, lots of it, and yet you seem to think it's ok to let those run things. Everything run by everyone is subject to waste, corruption, and simple inefficiency. That's the risk we take in doing anything.

    And let's remember, Medicare has to take on a population that is mostly in need without the benefit of having the young, healthy patients to supplement the cost. This makes a real difference, so all things considered, the program doesn't do that poorly.

    However, while it would have more sense to have the public option, the fact is it isn't there. Detractors succeeded in getting it removed. I personally think this was a mistake, and hope it gets revisited in the future.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    well, there is no PO

    not here in reality, anyway

    which is why, with the class act imposing hi premiums relatively on the young invulnerables and lower rates on the more infirm, "benefits," as you say, "are less and the need to ration is greater"

    the whole scheme depends on massive cuts to m and m which aint gonna happen

    when they don't go down, the deficit explodes

    same with the doc fix

    universal coverage, to oblivious obama, simply means---you kids go out and buy it, all of you

    that's universal

    good job, dems

    once more, congrats

    live it, love it

    INCUMBENT byron dorgan TRAILS some generic north dakota republican by TWENTY TWO

    SPEAKER reid trails a pair of challengers by half a dozen each

    INCUMBENT michael bennett of colorado is BEHIND by between 4 and 9

    dodd's dead

    INCUMBENT blanche lincoln trails by 6

    etc

    RealClearPolitics - Latest Election Polls
    No, cuts won't happen. Hopefully other methods involved (Tax on Cadillac plans for example) will bring in enough revenue. That said, I doubt this present plan will be successful as written and will have to be readdressed alter on. Hopefully by then we can more forward and do a better job.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There's waste in the private sector as well, lots of it, and yet you seem to think it's ok to let those run things. Everything run by everyone is subject to waste, corruption, and simple inefficiency. That's the risk we take in doing anything.

    And let's remember, Medicare has to take on a population that is mostly in need without the benefit of having the young, healthy patients to supplement the cost. This makes a real difference, so all things considered, the program doesn't do that poorly.

    However, while it would have more sense to have the public option, the fact is it isn't there. Detractors succeeded in getting it removed. I personally think this was a mistake, and hope it gets revisited in the future.
    Problem is, in the Private sector, they have to make up for waste. Either they pass it on to the consumer if they think they can get away with it or they do their best not to waste. Not to mention, we're not forcibly paying into every aspect of the private industry so often we're not directly being hit by their waste. On the other hand, the Government will take what it can get. If it achieves its goals then it's a success. They aren't going for profit, and they aren't really even going for "break even" at this point, which means the money we're paying in isn't always going to the best cause.

    That being said, we need a happy medium. Whatever that happy medium is, I don't rightly know at this point and time.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Problem is, in the Private sector, they have to make up for waste. Either they pass it on to the consumer if they think they can get away with it or they do their best not to waste. Not to mention, we're not forcibly paying into every aspect of the private industry so often we're not directly being hit by their waste. On the other hand, the Government will take what it can get. If it achieves its goals then it's a success. They aren't going for profit, and they aren't really even going for "break even" at this point, which means the money we're paying in isn't always going to the best cause.

    That being said, we need a happy medium. Whatever that happy medium is, I don't rightly know at this point and time.
    They make up for waste by charging more (you mentioned that). And sometimes they go out of business without the good sense to police themselves.

    The government functions much the same way. The only difference is we are the board of directors. We decide how we proceed in the future. We change leadership, often based on issues, and let our satisfaction or disappointment known.

    As for middle ground, that was the public option. It was between entirely the private sector and universal insurer.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They make up for waste by charging more (you mentioned that). And sometimes they go out of business without the good sense to police themselves.
    I've never taken more than an economics 101 class and yet I can see what those execs cannot. Weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The government functions much the same way. The only difference is we are the board of directors. We decide how we proceed in the future. We change leadership, often based on issues, and let our satisfaction or disappointment known.
    IN theory yes, in actuality, there are factors in play that create quite the corrupt company and we, more like shareholders, are getting continually screwed because the government has turned from a Government for the People, By the People, to a system that almost rewards failure/inaction and focuses on the wrong values in leadership positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As for middle ground, that was the public option. It was between entirely the private sector and universal insurer.
    The middle ground should have been finding a way to reduce costs without spending all this money and creating controversial legislation. But then again, that's business as usual in Washington I suppose. I'm not a fan of piling more systems onto already failing systems to try and patch the holes in the entire system. It's like we're living in a house that needs some serious fixing up and they want to add on a brand new sun room.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    I've never taken more than an economics 101 class and yet I can see what those execs cannot. Weird...
    I suspect you're not alone in that.


    IN theory yes, in actuality, there are factors in play that create quite the corrupt company and we, more like shareholders, are getting continually screwed because the government has turned from a Government for the People, By the People, to a system that almost rewards failure/inaction and focuses on the wrong values in leadership positions.
    If true, and I'm unconvinced either way, that would be because we have stopped holding them accountable. We play too much us versus them, let them manipulate us with unimportant issues, and don't pay near enough attention.


    The middle ground should have been finding a way to reduce costs without spending all this money and creating controversial legislation. But then again, that's business as usual in Washington I suppose. I'm not a fan of piling more systems onto already failing systems to try and patch the holes in the entire system. It's like we're living in a house that needs some serious fixing up and they want to add on a brand new sun room.
    I would have favored a complete remaking of the system. I tend to lean towards a universal payer, with all of us paying a premium. This would make the pool sufficient enough to cover costs. And this would be that serious fixing.

    However, that was never going to happen. So, a middle ground was sought, a public option. And in the end, we let those who demagogue destroy any reasonable effort.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I suspect you're not alone in that.




    If true, and I'm unconvinced either way, that would be because we have stopped holding them accountable. We play too much us versus them, let them manipulate us with unimportant issues, and don't pay near enough attention.




    I would have favored a complete remaking of the system. I tend to lean towards a universal payer, with all of us paying a premium. This would make the pool sufficient enough to cover costs. And this would be that serious fixing.

    However, that was never going to happen. So, a middle ground was sought, a public option. And in the end, we let those who demagogue destroy any reasonable effort.

    I have come to love you and value your posts over these past few days.

    <3

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    I've enjoyed them myself.

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    Re: Nelson says he'll support healthcare bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Eliminating the use of pre-existing conditions to deny coverage to people will simplify the business; no longer can the most cut throat insurance companies undermine their competitors.
    My understanding is that, although health insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, there is nothing that prohibits insurers from jacking up rates on those individuals.

    If this is true (and I keep hearing that it is), insurance companies will still be able to avoid covering those with pre-existing conditions by simply pricing them out of the market.

    Denial of coverage with an added twist.

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