• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

jamesrage said:
What does that have to do with the issue of buy American and outsourcing?
Click to expand...
You still don't get it? Why do they outsource? Investors are not stupid. They did their sums before they decided to outsource.
 
RDS said:
You still don't get it? Why do they outsource? Investors are not stupid. They did their sums before they decided to outsource.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows why they outsource.Higher profit margin, this is common knowledge. Cheaper employees especially dirt cheap employees in other countries means more profit.It is human nature to want to want to get more for less.
 
Last edited:
obvious Child said:
Actually we replaced many of those good paying jobs with machines. Why pay a skilled spot welder a high wage when a machine can do it 24 hours a day without a single mistake?

Scorpion ignores the reallocation of the economy towards a service sector base which has seen the growth of many high paying jobs. It's partially a reason why the real wage average hasn't gone down. Scorpion's assertion is mathematically false as if those good jobs were really gone, real wages should have declined. Instead, they have merely stagnated.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the point of my post. Should have probably written it better. Even in the service sector thousands of formerly American jobs are outsourced every single year to IT professionals in India, China etc. simply because they can be paid less. Companies within the U.S. are working overtime to get congress to push the cap on working visas just because in the long run it's cheaper to pay $30K a year to an IT professional from India then it is to pay $50K to an American one. If this is happening to people with diplomas why shouldn't it happen to people without them?
 
Hatuey said:
That wasn't the point of my post.
Click to expand...

True, I was just pointing out many of formerly good paying jobs are now done by machine.

Even in the service sector thousands of formerly American jobs are outsourced every single year to IT professionals in India, China etc. simply because they can be paid less.
Click to expand...

However, many firms like Dell have realized that the quality is low and are bringing some back. I still hear Jetblue has its customer service done in the US.

Companies within the U.S. are working overtime to get congress to push the cap on working visas just because in the long run it's cheaper to pay $30K a year to an IT professional from India then it is to pay $50K to an American one.
Click to expand...

Do you know if they are trying to reduce the legal sponsoring fees?
 
jamesrage said:
Everyone knows why they outsource.Higher profit margin, this is common knowledge. Cheaper employees especially dirt cheap employees in other countries means more profit.It is human nature to want to want to get more for less.
Click to expand...

So do you think investers gonna get owned through legislation? They rather shut down the company if they not gonna make a tidy profit.
 
RDS said:
So do you think investers gonna get owned through legislation? They rather shut down the company if they not gonna make a tidy profit.
Click to expand...

How tiny were their profits before they outsourced? It couldn't have been tiny as you claimed it to be if they were operating here for many years and possibly many decades before they outsourced.
 
jamesrage said:
You are free to move your business where ever the hell you want. However my country should be able to impose whatever tariffs it can to ensure that goods made over here can fairly compete with goods you paid some Chinese kids 2 dollars a day to make.
Click to expand...

Your country and mine are the same. Why should you or anyone else attempt to punish me for success in the fact that I am making a product that is in some cases better than my competition. My labor costs are low but if I pay them fairly then why should I not profit?


jamesrage said:
However my country should be able to impose whatever tariffs it can to ensure that goods made over here can fairly compete with goods you paid some Chinese kids 2 dollars a day to make.
Click to expand...

So because you think you are too good to be paid so little or perhaps as lazy as to do so much which is every union that I seen in this country. You beleave that the standard of living in america should be the pass or fail grade for employment arround the world. How truly arragant you are. 2 dollars a month is a comparative in some rural villages in china last time I was in asia. 2 dollars a day is what an entry communist party offical makes.

Also I love how you bring china into this. Did you know that the government of the peoples republic of China takes care of everything as far as benefits are concerned. The people do not pay anything for any type of medical or dental. The government gives them money to go on vacation every year.

The most important thing for us as far as this conversation is concerned is that the Peoples Republic of China Central Finance Committee set the pay that is to be given to chinese nationals by foreign companies in an effort to maintain social equality whitin China. Not to mention the fact that china has actually invested and nationalised many of its exporting companies meaning that if we put a tarriff on all non products stemming from america china will do the same to us. and so will most of the world.

Now that fact is not what MAKES YOU AN IDIOT. What MAKES YOU AN IDIOT is that you fail to grasp that we do not manufacture or create any of the things most americans need for day to day life.

I hope you like wiping with news print because on two of the 7 major toilet paper manufacturers are completely american...

Pass a tarriff like the one you and all your union morons support will be the death of the united states economy.

To everone reading this In your Heart you may think that jamesrage is right but in your mind you know he's wrong.

That the end of the discussion unless you can give a senario in which we are successful after the entire world looks at us as if we are spoiled rotten children saying its not fair when we see that the slice of pie we were expecting is smaller than what we wanted.
 
Last edited:
RDS said:
So do you think investers gonna get owned through legislation? They rather shut down the company if they not gonna make a tidy profit.
Click to expand...

They'd rather shut down their entire company and make NO dividends instead of making less? Unless there was another company they could invest in to make mo' money I suppose.
 
Do those that support the implementation of tariffs not understand the consequences of such actions? Why do you think WW1 happened?
 
Slightly Left Of Center said:
Your country and mine are the same. Why should you or anyone else attempt to punish me for success in the fact that I am making a product that is in some cases better than my competition.
Click to expand...

You are not being punished. It would be done to ensure that American companies stay American and that we do not depending on some other nation to make out ****.

My labor costs are low but if I pay them fairly then why should I not profit?
Click to expand...

Going to some 3rd world country to circumvent the American labor market is not a fair wage.


So because you think you are too good to be paid so little or perhaps as lazy as to do so much which is every union that I seen in this country.
Click to expand...

What entitles you to make what you make? Are you too good to make less are you to lazy to make money yourself instead of making it off the sweat and backs of others?

You beleave that the standard of living in america should be the pass or fail grade for employment arround the world.
Click to expand...

I realize that the standard of living is higher in the US. Which is why tarrifs should take into account where a product was made in order to fairly compete with a product made over here.


Also I love how you bring china into this. Did you know that the government of the peoples republic of China takes care of everything as far as benefits are concerned. The people do not pay anything for any type of medical or dental. The government gives them money to go on vacation every year
Click to expand...
.

If you like a communist country so much then why not move here if this country is so bad?
The most important thing for us as far as this conversation is concerned is that the Peoples Republic of China Central Finance Committee set the pay that is to be given to chinese nationals by foreign companies in an effort to maintain social equality whitin China. Not to mention the fact that china has actually invested and nationalised many of its exporting companies meaning that if we put a tarriff on all non products stemming from america china will do the same to us. and so will most of the world.
Click to expand...


Things didn't seem that bad before our government basically sold out to China of all countries by encouraging American companies to outsource to China. So please stop with the fear mongering.
Now that fact is not what MAKES YOU AN IDIOT.
Click to expand...

Now what makes you a piece of shit globalist anti-American trash is you would sell your own country out to make a buck.See I can throw insults too.

What MAKES YOU AN IDIOT is that you fail to grasp that we do not manufacture or create any of the things most americans need for day to day life.
Click to expand...

What makes you a idiot is the fact that sell outs and traitors allowed those companies to leave in the first place. So if we placed the appropriate tariffs then Americans can make those products again.


Pass a tarriff like the one you and all your union morons support will be the death of the united states economy.

To everyone reading this In your Heart you may think that jamesrage is right but in your mind you know he's wrong.

That the end of the discussion unless you can give a senario in which we are successful after the entire world looks at us as if we are spoiled rotten children saying its not fair when we see that the slice of pie we were expecting is smaller than what we wanted
Click to expand...

Again things were fine before we started allowing companies to outsource to China so please stop with the fear mongering. We can impose tariffs, we did it before we started allowing jobs to outsource.
 
jamesrage said:
How tiny were their profits before they outsourced? It couldn't have been tiny as you claimed it to be if they were operating here for many years and possibly many decades before they outsourced.
Click to expand...

Its not tiny but tidy. There are 1000s of american manufacturing companies in Singapore. Why do they set up plants here and elsewhere? Simply because your wages and other costs are too high in USA. US govt won't be that stupid to pass the "buy American" legislation
 
RDS said:
Its not tiny but tidy. There are 1000s of american manufacturing companies in Singapore. Why do they set up plants here and elsewhere? Simply because your wages and other costs are too high in USA. US govt won't be that stupid to pass the "buy American" legislation
Click to expand...


In my opinion, If they'd lower or even remove the minimum wage it could boost employment and in-nation production in one fell swoop.
 
RDS said:
Its not tiny but tidy.
Click to expand...

It must not have been as bad as you try make it out seeing how those companies existed here in the nefore outsourcing.
There are 1000s of american manufacturing companies in Singapore.
Click to expand...

The second they outsource to another country they are no longer American. People should quit calling them American companies. An American company is one that is owned here in the US and makes its products here in the US.
 
jamesrage said:
It must not have been as bad as you try make it out seeing how those companies existed here in the nefore outsourcing.


The second they outsource to another country they are no longer American. People should quit calling them American companies. An American company is one that is owned here in the US and makes its products here in the US.[/QUOTE]

This is ****ing weird.
Click to expand...
 
jamesrage said:
The second they outsource to another country they are no longer American. People should quit calling them American companies. An American company is one that is owned here in the US and makes its products here in the US.
Click to expand...

So with a given company all jobs must be performed by Americans to be considered American? What if 90% of all production from a given company is in the US (so 10% is outside the country)? Are they not an American company? Where is the distinction made?

Also you didn't respond to my point about the consequences of protectionist measures that have been promoted in this thread.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Also you didn't respond to my point about the consequences of protectionist measures that have been promoted in this thread.
Click to expand...

Don't expect one. Protectionists are generally strong advocates of interventionism and don't believe in blowback. The concept that our actions have consequences is foreign to them.
 
jamesrage said:
Everyone knows why they outsource.Higher profit margin, this is common knowledge. Cheaper employees especially dirt cheap employees in other countries means more profit.It is human nature to want to want to get more for less.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the American consumer goes get more for less because of the outsourcing. Good point. ;)
 
jamesrage said:
Everyone knows why they outsource.Higher profit margin, this is common knowledge. Cheaper employees especially dirt cheap employees in other countries means more profit.It is human nature to want to want to get more for less.
Click to expand...

Amen, and let me add that, in China, they use slave labor too. Those who do not support an equal playing field by the judicious use of tariffs are supporting slavery, whether or not they are honest enough to admit it.
 
Last edited:
danarhea said:
This I can agree with. Our Federal government should be helping to prop up the American economy, not the economy of China, which is still an ideological enemy of the United States.

Be American, Buy American!

Discussion?

Article is here.
Click to expand...

That's fine, as long as you're willing to pay higher prices for American goods...
 
danarhea said:
Amen, and let me add that, in China, they use slave labor too. Those who do not support an equal playing field by the judicious use of tariffs are supporting slavery, whether or not they are honest enough to admit it.
Click to expand...

So companies are exporting jobs and using slaves to produce our goods? Really?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
So with a given company all jobs must be performed by Americans to be considered American? What if 90% of all production from a given company is in the US (so 10% is outside the country)? Are they not an American company? Where is the distinction made?

Also you didn't respond to my point about the consequences of protectionist measures that have been promoted in this thread.
Click to expand...

The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
 
jamesrage said:
The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
Click to expand...

It's disloyal to think you are wrong? Oh well, not like I have not been called that and worse.
 
jamesrage said:
The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
Click to expand...

No, they're well-backed by good economic thought. We work to live, we don't live to work, as Milton Friedman said. Tariffs decrease the total value of the goods available to a consumer. You're, in effect, arguing to decrease our quality of life. :thumbdown
 
jamesrage said:
The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
Click to expand...

Just in case you thought this was a response to my point, it isn't. I asked two questions:

Me said:
Do those that support the implementation of tariffs not understand the consequences of such actions?
Click to expand...

So if tariffs have no consequences, as you have said, then tariffs wouldn't have an effect on bolstering US production, either, as that is a consequence. All actions have consequences. Do you know what the consequences would be or not?

Me said:
Why do you think WW1 happened?
Click to expand...

This is a more specific question about the history tariffs have of causing conflict. If you don't think that the competition between world powers for markets and new avenues of capital investment were the causes of WW1 (all spurred on by protectionist policies which developed this all in the first place) then what do you think were the causes? What affect do you think protectionist policies had on the lead-up to WW1?
 
phattonez said:
No, they're well-backed by good economic thought. We work to live, we don't live to work, as Milton Friedman said. Tariffs decrease the total value of the goods available to a consumer. You're, in effect, arguing to decrease our quality of life. :thumbdown
Click to expand...

In the long run though, bringing back jobs and industry, along with pride and a better quality of product, would be the 'good intention' of these tariffs. But let us not forget: The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom