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Thread: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    So with a given company all jobs must be performed by Americans to be considered American? What if 90% of all production from a given company is in the US (so 10% is outside the country)? Are they not an American company? Where is the distinction made?

    Also you didn't respond to my point about the consequences of protectionist measures that have been promoted in this thread.
    The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
    It's disloyal to think you are wrong? Oh well, not like I have not been called that and worse.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
    No, they're well-backed by good economic thought. We work to live, we don't live to work, as Milton Friedman said. Tariffs decrease the total value of the goods available to a consumer. You're, in effect, arguing to decrease our quality of life.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage
    The alleged consequences are nothing more than fear mongering by globalist with no loyalty to any country.
    Just in case you thought this was a response to my point, it isn't. I asked two questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Do those that support the implementation of tariffs not understand the consequences of such actions?
    So if tariffs have no consequences, as you have said, then tariffs wouldn't have an effect on bolstering US production, either, as that is a consequence. All actions have consequences. Do you know what the consequences would be or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Why do you think WW1 happened?
    This is a more specific question about the history tariffs have of causing conflict. If you don't think that the competition between world powers for markets and new avenues of capital investment were the causes of WW1 (all spurred on by protectionist policies which developed this all in the first place) then what do you think were the causes? What affect do you think protectionist policies had on the lead-up to WW1?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, they're well-backed by good economic thought. We work to live, we don't live to work, as Milton Friedman said. Tariffs decrease the total value of the goods available to a consumer. You're, in effect, arguing to decrease our quality of life.
    In the long run though, bringing back jobs and industry, along with pride and a better quality of product, would be the 'good intention' of these tariffs. But let us not forget: The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    In the long run though, bringing back jobs and industry, along with pride and a better quality of product, would be the 'good intention' of these tariffs. But let us not forget: The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions.
    Bringing jobs back is such a strange concept. It's not as if there are a fixed number of jobs in the world. By making some goods more expensive, you've effectively just cut the real wage of everyone. Let's say that we totally eliminate steel imports. Instead of say $50 an ounce, they'll sell for maybe $100 an ounce because the scarcity has increased. The people in other countries that were exporting the goods will be poorer (unless you want to be a nationalistic zealot and say that foreigners don't matter), the people of this country will be poorer. This improves only one group: domestic steel producers. Talk about a special interest project.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Just in case you thought this was a response to my point, it isn't. I asked two questions:



    So if tariffs have no consequences, as you have said, then tariffs wouldn't have an effect on bolstering US production, either, as that is a consequence. All actions have consequences. Do you know what the consequences would be or not?
    I am aware other countries would impose tariffs to but how would it be any different before we started outsourcing jobs to China,India and other countries?


    What affect do you think protectionist policies had on the lead-up to WW1?
    We outsourcing American jobs left and right to China, India and other countries before WWI?


    Your argument seems to be let companies outsource and what ever things we might still manufacture might get sold to those other countries but most likely we will not have anything to export or discouraging outsourcing and what ever is made here may or may not be sold to overseas countries. In other words damned if we do and damned if we don't? I would rather that we made our own things than be dependent on other countries for things.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Bringing jobs back is such a strange concept.
    They left,We want them back (or at least other companies here in the US to take their place). Why does that seem like a strange concept to bring them back(or at least other companies here in the US to take their place)?



    The people in other countries that were exporting the goods will be poorer (unless you want to be a nationalistic zealot and say that foreigners don't matter), the people of this country will be poorer. This improves only one group: domestic steel producers. Talk about a special interest project.
    It is not the government's jobs to provide jobs for other countries.If they are going to provide jobs it should be the citizens they were elected to represent. Last time I checked no Chinese, Indian or some other foreign citizen citizen voted for Clinton,Bush, Obama or any other politician. I do not give a **** if the people in China, India or any other country gets poorer, **** them.I do not want people in my country getting poorer or my country having to depend on other countries to make things for us because the traitors in office tossed the salad(oral anal sex) of businesses whose only loyalty is to their pockets.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 12-20-09 at 10:46 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Bringing jobs back is such a strange concept. It's not as if there are a fixed number of jobs in the world. By making some goods more expensive, you've effectively just cut the real wage of everyone. Let's say that we totally eliminate steel imports. Instead of say $50 an ounce, they'll sell for maybe $100 an ounce because the scarcity has increased. The people in other countries that were exporting the goods will be poorer (unless you want to be a nationalistic zealot and say that foreigners don't matter), the people of this country will be poorer. This improves only one group: domestic steel producers. Talk about a special interest project.
    I'm not talking about totally eliminating imports, I'm talking about American corporations opening up shop in...I dunno..America. If we got rid of minimum wage I'm sure that'd help. Then the **** jobs can get paid **** wages. A **** wage is better than no wage.

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    Re: Lipinski wants "buy American" wording in job legislation

    Put tarrifs on goods and then there will be tarrifs on American goods that are exported elsewhere. Obama tried to do it with tires. He put a tarrif of Chinese tires. So, the Chinese turned around and put a tarrif on American chickens (there's a big chicken business in China). Sure, this whole "buy American" stuff might sound appealing, but it benefits the businesses only. The average consumer loses in the end.

    If you want businesses to come back to America, cut costs to them that are imposed by the bloody government. The government makes it so damn unreasonable to run a business in America that it is better to base your business elsewhere. The answer is not to make huge tarrifs on foreign profits. The answer is to make it more profitable to do business in the United States.

    As for caring about other countries. You should care about other countries just like a business man would care about customers. If a country is not successful, they are not buying your goods and therefore, you're losing out on profits. If you want jobs to come back to America, start a grassroots effort to have Americans spend more money to buy a product made in America and then the jobs will come back to America. Any other attempt is going to benefit the businesses and not the average American.

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