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Thread: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

  1. #51
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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    What would you like for evidence? Uranium being spun into weapons grade? Longe range weapons being developed and tested?
    Does the US do these things?

    The promise that Israel is destroyed?
    We have no obligation to attack if they invade another country. We would be justified in attacking though.

    The facilitation and funding of international terrorism. The IED and American soldier killing going on in both wars right this second.
    If they are attacking us, directly or indirectly, we should attack.

    Hitler hadn't invaded before Chamberlain's peace in our time mistake.

    On Oct 1, 1938
    So Germany never should have been allowed to build up a defense? Then why should we?

    Germany invaded Poland in September, 1939. Funny, this is exactly your advice here.....go home and sleep and wait until the day before we're attacked.
    The Sudetenland? Did you forget about that?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Did Neville Chamberlain do nothing when Hitler wanted to expand? No, he rolled out the red carpet for him. I would have had no problem with him taking action there, but until then, was he doing anything wrong in terms of foreign policy?
    Yes, Chamberlain was doing TONS wrong with his country's foreign policy.

    He rebuffed the Soviets, he didn't tell France to get a backbone, and he didn't do enough to re-arm England, and otherwise abetted Hitler by his incompetence and inaction.

    WWII could have been prevented at several points in Hitler's career if only the French and British had had spines.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Does the US do these things?
    Yep. Outside of the present instance, the US isn't led by fanatics, in Iran that's the norm.


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    We have no obligation to attack if they invade another country. We would be justified in attacking though.
    Oh?

    Ignorant of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization? If Iran attacks any NATO member, all NATO members are obligated by treaty to miliarily support the attacked member. Since the US is the only NATO member with a military that can do anything, that means the US is on call when Iran attacks Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If they are attacking us, directly or indirectly, we should attack.
    How does one attack "indirectly"?

    OH! You mean like when Iran is supplying arms and personnel to build and plant IED's in Iraq that kill US soldiers. So you're saying we should attack Iran.

    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So Germany never should have been allowed to build up a defense? Then why should we?
    According to Versailles, Germany was allowed to build a defense within specified limits.

    Nuclear weapons are not defensive weapons.

    Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The Sudetenland? Did you forget about that?
    No, haven't forgotten that Hitler trumped up territorial demands on the basis of false allegations of repression in Czechoslovakia.

    You are aware, are you not, that the "Sudetenland" was that portion of Czechoslovakia Hitler claimed and which Chamberlain agreed to cede to Hitler at the conference in Munich so he could go home and declare he's achieved "peace in our time", right?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 12-17-09 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Making no sense, is that a learned talent or were you born with it?
    How many people who tried to preserve peace in the face of growing unrest have ever proven to be good military commanders or conflict managers?

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Pre 9-11 mentality? Is your mentality the one that says that only we and our friends are allowed to build up our defenses, even nuclear defenses? Does your mentality state that we must destroy another nation that builds up its military even if it does not threaten us? It's my contention that we should build up our defenses rather than plan attacks. When we attack, our defense naturally less than it otherwise could be, plus we make ourselves more prone to attack due to blowback.
    "............even if it does not threaten us?"

    LOL - I guess they didn't send you the memo on this one - Iran has been conducting a proxy war against the U.S. since they overthrew the Shah back in the 70's - Iran has been threatening and attacking the U.S. since they overthrew the U.S. emabassy in Tehran and made hostages of 53 people for 444 days, from Nov. 4, 1979 until Jan. 20, 1981, the day President Reagan was sworn into office.

    Just think if the U.S. overthrew some country's embassy here in America and held their people hostage for even one day, let alone 444 days.

    Then their proxies hit the Marine barracks at the International Airport in Beirut Lebanon killing 241 U.S. soldiers - soldiers who were there to try to keep the security for the airport because of the threat to it.

    Iran's proxies have blown up a couple of U.S. embassies, the USS Cole, hotels, nightclubs, market, workplaces - you name it - Iran's proxies have targeted the U.S. and its friends for 30 years - and you insinuate that they have a right to build nukes and long range missiles even if they don't threaten us - they have been threatening and attacking the civilized world for 30 years.

    Hezbollah, the PLO, the Taliban, Hamas, and Al Qaeda are but some of Iran's proxies - their proxies are at work in Somalia, Sudan, and quite a few other nations, as well.

    Iran's oil money pays for their deeds - that money would be better spent on working toward peace and not domination of the region, which is Iran's plan.

    Just what do you think this is all about, anyway?

    Do you know that Iran's plan is to take over the region and restore it's Persian glory?

    Look at an old map of Persia and you will see exactly where they are doing their deeds with their proxies and the arms they smuggle in.

    This is no secret - a lot of people know this, I guess except for those who didn't get the memo - well, I hope you get it.
    Last edited by Tom Jones; 12-17-09 at 04:00 PM.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Here's a read I just dug up:

    Iran's Proxy War Against America by Thomas Joscelyn
    By Brian T. Kennedy

    Posted September 11, 2007

    Foreword

    The Claremont Institute’s National Security Studies series is devoted to the serious discussion of what will be required to defend the United States and the West. Our Declaration of Independence teaches that government is instituted among men to secure life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution’s injunction to provide for the “common defense” requires a vigorous and vigilant approach to national security. American foreign policy dedicated to the security of the interests and rights of its citizens requires not only informed and prudent statesmanship, but also a responsible citizenry that is engaged in the national discussion about friends and foes. It is in this tradition of spirited self-government that we publish these studies.

    Iran has long been one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism worldwide. Iran’s ruling mullahs are extending their regional influence in the fog of the Iraq conflict. Their pursuit of nuclear weapons and a robust ballistic missile capability continues apace. Thomas Joscelyn argues that Iran is guilty of far more. An emboldened Iran has vicariously waged war against America for nearly three decades, yet America’s leaders are unwilling to admit what is plain for all to see.

    Because of our reluctance to confront this terrorist state openly, we are losing ground on a vital front in our war against radical Islam. Through careful analysis of open sources, Joscelyn explains both the intelligence establishment’s misreading of history and the numerous but unfounded assumptions by today’s elite concerning Iran and its link to terrorist operations.

    One of the most damaging and unwarranted assumptions made is that sectarian differences within Islam should prevent cooperation in operations against the West. A brief look at the evidence shows that Iran and others have had no trouble in putting aside differences in theology to harm their enemies, especially America. Specific links include the Iranian connection to al-Qaeda in the Sudan, a partnership brokered by Hassan al-Turabi, one-time leader of Sudan’s ruling party, the National Islamic Front. Next, there is Imad Mugniyah, Hezbollah’s master terrorist, who helped Osama bin Laden upgrade al-Qaeda’s capabilities in the early 1990s. The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, long suspected to be the handiwork of Hezbollah under direction from Iran, may also have had a junior partner in al-Qaeda. The 9/11 Commission established that the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania were the work of Hezbollah-trained al-Qaeda operatives. There are disturbing signs that may implicate Iran in, at the very least, facilitating travel for some of the 9/11 hijackers. Finally, there is extensive evidence that Iran aided al-Qaeda’s retreat from Afghanistan in late 2001 and has allowed al-Qaeda agents to operate from Iranian soil ever since.

    Recognizing this pattern is a prerequisite to restoring a sound policy towards Iran. We must be honest about Iran’s past actions over the last three decades. We must also publicly investigate Iran and Hezbollah’s possible involvement in 9/11 and other al-Qaeda attacks. Evidence not harmful to current national security assets or strategy should be declassified. We should demand that Iran turn over any al-Qaeda fighters seeking refuge on Iranian soil. Finally, we should set about the business of devising a broad and coherent strategy for confronting Iran. How we go about meeting the Iranian threat is open for debate, but we cannot hope to resolve this vital issue by continuing to pretend that Iran does not play a large role in the terrorists’ ongoing war against America.

    The American regime has faced down larger and more formidable foes than Iran, Hezbollah, and al-Qaeda. But in an age of increasing technological sophistication, it is irresponsible to sit idly by while threats gather and foreign actors are allowed to carry out acts of war. The way forward requires prudence, clear strategic thinking, and statesmanship. Thomas Joscelyn’s compelling case that we must first open our eyes is a vital contribution to what we hope will be a new direction for American foreign policy.

    Brian T. Kennedy
    President, The Claremont Institute
    September 11, 2007

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    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Did Neville Chamberlain do nothing when Hitler wanted to expand? No, he rolled out the red carpet for him. I would have had no problem with him taking action there, but until then, was he doing anything wrong in terms of foreign policy?
    Inaction was his demise...his colossal misunderstanding.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Does the US do these things?
    We'd be idiots not to.

    If they are attacking us, directly or indirectly, we should attack.
    What do you mean by "if?"

    So Germany never should have been allowed to build up a defense? Then why should we?
    Germany should have been permitted to build a defense, Germany should have been faced and with determination when they showed offense.

    The Sudetenland? Did you forget about that?
    No...you did. Chamberlain negotiated the Sudetenland, the same with Czechoslavakia. Had Europe and the US stood against Germany long before...in other words...had taken an offensive posture BEFORE Germany's expansion, history might be tad different.

    Soviet Russia the next example. Should we have faced Russia down when they refused to recognize Poland and cut off Eastern States.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    We'd be idiots not to.



    What do you mean by "if?"



    Germany should have been permitted to build a defense, Germany should have been faced and with determination when they showed offense.



    No...you did. Chamberlain negotiated the Sudetenland, the same with Czechoslavakia. Had Europe and the US stood against Germany long before...in other words...had taken an offensive posture BEFORE Germany's expansion, history might be tad different.

    Soviet Russia the next example. Should we have faced Russia down when they refused to recognize Poland and cut off Eastern States.
    The problem with what happened when Germany went Nazi-tyranical was the failure to set up a civil government in Germany after WWI and instead allowing a screwball with retarded ideals like Hitler come to power there.
    Germany deserved better - and for the world to turn a blind eye and let such monstorousity grow..........

    Which is why we can never allow Iran, under its current regime, to obtain nukes.

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    Re: Iran Test-Fires Its Longest-Range Missile

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Jones View Post
    The problem with what happened when Germany went Nazi-tyranical was the failure to set up a civil government in Germany after WWI and instead allowing a screwball with retarded ideals like Hitler come to power there.
    Germany deserved better - and for the world to turn a blind eye and let such monstorousity grow..........

    Which is why we can never allow Iran, under its current regime, to obtain nukes.
    There was a civil government established in post-WW1 Germany, it was called The Weimar Republic. A Liberal Democracy that was too weak to prevent a tyrrant from taking over the government and voiding the 1919 Constitution.

    Look at pre-WW2 Germany and you'll see history repeating itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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