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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    But how is that addressing CR's post (the one I was responding to)?
    It is addressing my post and Hatuey hit the nail on the head. Prohibiting same sex marriage is discrimination pure and simple.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    To some people they are:
    Alligators as pets


    I'm not saying that gays are predators, but was just pointing out that your observations/premises don't necessarily lead us to your conclusion.

    Hey! You asked me, "Tell me where I go wrong in your opinion please" - that's all I was doing.
    From your source :

    Now that we know what alligators and caimans are we will discuss attitude in both the animal and the owner. Can these reptiles be tamed? The real question is: do you have the wherewithal to try? Let’s get something straight as pet owners, sightseers, and concerned citizens. Alligators are not loving, tender, or particularly good-natured when it comes to humans. We are mammals, we are weaker, we are usually smaller, and we aren’t nearly as fast, and any one of those conditions puts us in the “food” category. But don’t abandon all hope yet. Through diligent effort, in theory, any alligator owner can tame (or at least mildly calm) their pets. This entails lengthy physical contact on a daily basis for years on end. You will more than likely reduce its fear of you as a predator, thereby reducing stress for the animal in the long run. These activities should be engaged from the outset when the animal is as young as possible. Even after all that effort you still have to be careful. Your pet will always have the feeding instinct lingering.
    Remember biology class lectures about the “reptilian” portion of the brain being the most primal? They weren’t lying. In terms of mood you may be used to buying dogs or cats that are, worst case scenario, anywhere from bratty to bully. In a crocodilian this could translate into, over time or immediately, horrid to murderous. This is not something to get into if you have the savior syndrome. If you want a fixer-upper buy an old house. Having said all of that, it is true that alligators and caimans are considered the most docile of crocodilians and many owners have long and productive relationships with them. You just need to know what you are getting into in advance. These are not lap pets!
    Do you not understand the difference between what we're discussing and the example you brought up?

    1. Gays have been shown to be as competent in child rearing as straights.

    2. Gay couples have been shown to be no different than straight couples as far as social dynamics with the rest of society are concerned.

    -------

    1. Alligators have not been shown to be as 'great' 'pets' as say a dog or a cat.

    2. The author of your article states himself that these are NOT domesticated animals and should not be treated as such.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes, yes, and yes, though not in all cases in any of those examples.
    Precisely. An animal can be, but need not be "domesticated" in order to be a pet. Many aquarium fish are caught in the wild and shipped directly to pet stores. Same goes for many birds (e.g. finches). I can walk outside and catch a turtle, put it in a tank, and make it my pet.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    1. Alligators have not been shown to be as 'great' 'pets' as say a dog or a cat.
    Are you trying to be obtuse? That's why I selected it as an example.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Are you trying to be obtuse? That's why I selected it as an example.
    And I explained why your example is a failure. Alligators have not been shown to be good pets. Gays have been shown to be competent parents.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And I explained why your example is a failure. Alligators have not been shown to be good pets. Gays have been shown to be competent parents.
    Show me in that argument where it says "gays have been shown to be competent parents"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    It is addressing my post and Hatuey hit the nail on the head. Prohibiting same sex marriage is discrimination pure and simple.
    Please put in bold the portion of your post he is addressing:
    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    And child rearing should be done without tax subsidized marriages. The focus of this debate should be to eliminate government sanctioned marriage. Once that's done, marriage will be open to all.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Show me in that argument where it says "gays have been shown to be competent parents"
    What Can We Learn From Lesbian and Gay Parents? | Cherry Grrl

    Note that I rarely use blogs as a source, but since this is the authors blog, I think it's ok.

    The results will come as no shock to some people, but may surprise others. For example, the research is consistent in suggesting that the relationships of committed same-sex couples are no less healthy and satisfying than those of committed heterosexual couples. There is even some research that suggests that lesbian couples show higher relationship satisfaction compared to other types of couples. Likewise, lesbian and gay parents themselves are just as warm and nurturing as heterosexual parents. They also show similar levels of skill with respect to parenting and child care tasks. Finally, the children of lesbian and gay parents are as well-adjusted and socially competent as children of heterosexual parents.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Show me in that argument where it says "gays have been shown to be competent parents"
    http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...-adjusted-kids

    Researchers looked at information gleaned from 15 studies on more than 500 children, evaluating possible stigma, teasing and social isolation, adjustment and self-esteem, opposite gender role models, sexual orientation, and strengths.

    Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress.

    "Some studies showed that single heterosexual parents' children have more difficulties than children who have parents of the same sex," Perrin says. "They did better in discipline, self-esteem, and had less psychosocial difficulties at home and at school."
    What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

    But most studies have found that outcomes for children of gay and lesbian parents are no better -- and no worse -- than for other children, whether the measures involve peer group relationships, self-esteem, behavioral difficulties, academic achievement, or warmth and quality of family relationships.

    No one knows precisely how many children in the United States have at least one parent who is lesbian or gay. Estimates range all the way from 1 million to 9 million.

    For many of these young people, though, growing up in what census researchers call a "same-sex parent household" doesn't have to be a big deal -- except that, these days, it is.
    USATODAY.com - Looking straight at gay parents

    In one small British study, the analysis found children raised by lesbians were no more likely to identify themselves as homosexual than those brought up in heterosexual households.

    The analysis touches on the third rail of gay parenting research: sexual behavior. The British study said young girls raised by lesbians were more apt to be sexually adventurous than those raised by heterosexual parents and more likely to have had intimacy with a same-sex partner. Boys raised by lesbians, however, were less sexually adventurous than those raised in straight households.

    New research on gay families is underway, Stacey says. The most one can say so far is "we need more data."

    Musheno, Alston, Zaborsky and Price are not waiting for more data. "We were not sure how well this would work out when we started," Musheno says. "You gamble whenever you have a child. But we are all very close, very much involved, one big happy family."
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-21-09 at 05:30 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage


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