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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Absurd.

    The state cares very much about procreation. A healthy society demands sufficient population to pay taxes and fund programs.

    On the family level, it can be detrimental when procreation occurs in single-parent households, as the state is more likley to have to subsidize (same goes for polygamy).
    Ah but we are not talking about "single-parent" families. We are talking about marriage. Which the word "single" obviously excludes.
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Procreation is irrelevant to rearing adopted children perhaps, but hardly irrelevant to the vast majority of families. For most of us who decide to have families, procreation is the desired route. [Needless to say, adopted children do not do"just as well" but are more likely to suffer depression and self-esteem problems, and deal with abandonment issues. The vast majority desire information on their birth-parents.]

    Further, it benefits society when people procreate within a marriage. It's nice that people have the opportunity to adopt children, but it's maybe better for society if the child that came from the 17 year old girl arrived a few years later, in a stable home.

    Let's not forget that many (most?) couples who do adopt did so after trying (unsuccessfully) to procreate. As I stated, "It's good for society when people want to dedicate their lives to each other and start a family" -
    Nope. As I said that started this entire thing...child rearing is what benefits society. HOW the child enters the world is irrelevant. It is the act of helping that child to grow that benefits the state.
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Absurd.

    The state cares very much about procreation. A healthy society demands sufficient population to pay taxes and fund programs.

    On the family level, it can be detrimental when procreation occurs in single-parent households, as the state is more likley to have to subsidize (same goes for polygamy).
    All of which is irrelevant. The state cares who exists, not HOW they came into existence. A family who has adopted is equivalent to a family with biological children in the state's eyes as far as whether or not it is beneficial. Procreation is irrelevant to this equation.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nope. As I said that started this entire thing...child rearing is what benefits society. HOW the child enters the world is irrelevant. It is the act of helping that child to grow that benefits the state.
    And that's all well and good. But child-rearing for society's benefit does not translate into logical opposition to gay marriage.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That's the million dollar question. All else being equal, I don't think it benefits society as much as heterosexual marriage. I'll have to fill in the why's tomorrow - gotta sleep!
    Which is why you continue to hold an illogical position. Because a logical one would destroy your premise. All things being equal, since research shows that a homosexual couple can rear a child as well as a heterosexual couple, and since the health and stability benefits would also be equal regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple, GM certainly benefits the state just as much as heterosexual marriage. But please, feel free to show evidence of your position.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And that's all well and good. But child-rearing for society's benefit does not translate into logical opposition to gay marriage.
    Ummm...that's what I'm arguing, jallman. Child-rearing for society's benefit translates, logically to support gay marriage.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Ummm...that's what I'm arguing, jallman. Child-rearing for society's benefit translates, logically to support gay marriage.
    I know, I was just commenting to you on Taylor's position...whatever that may be.

    I'm so glad I will be somewhere without internet by tonight. That was 5 pages of you trying the wrangle Taylor into committing to a position, Taylor just mindlessly bickering with everyone who entered the thread, and texmaster ocassionally cheerleading Taylor's mindless bickering.

    *sigh*


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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    I wonder where this thread will take me today!



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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Ummm...that's what I'm arguing, jallman. Child-rearing for society's benefit translates, logically to support gay marriage.
    And child rearing should be done without tax subsidized marriages. The focus of this debate should be to eliminate government sanctioned marriage. Once that's done, marriage will be open to all.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Poor textmaster. Still doesn't get it. Still can't understand that there are two ways to discount an argument: information or logic. Yours was simple enough to dispose of through logic. There is none in it.
    Thank you for making my point for me CC. You can't cite any study to support your claims.

    All you can do is proclaim your adversaries don't understand you. Its a sad and pathetic style of argument but considering how weak your argument is, not surprising.


    BTW, you've been posting all this time and still can't get my name right? Hint: There are only two t's in Texmaster. Try to pay more attention to detail. It does explain how sloppy your arguments are though when you can't even get this right.

    See, and this is where you continue to fail. You attribute a position to me that I never made. Tell me where I said that there was an equal chance of being gay or straight? Bet you can't find it, because I never said it. Now, I know that you must attribute to me a position that I never made, simply because my actual position so badly destroys yours, but please try to debate honestly.
    Pointing out your lies is just getting easier the more your post

    Second, homosexuality also occurs in nature, so on the right/wrong scale it is equivalent to heterosexuality.
    Busted. Again. Your lies are more and more transparent. Its painfully clear you made that exact claim. Poor CC, can't even keep up with his own posts.

    Appeal to nature logical fallacy. You should make that your new username you use it so often.
    Nice dodge to my challenge. No shocker though.

    Please show one study that clearly demonstrates that the penis and vagina were designed for procreation. A word from the designer, the only one who really knows this would be nice.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

    Ok this has to be the dumbest response you've made so far. By far, this is the worst argument I have ever seen on this issue.

    I've already given you links explaining the function of the penis and vagina when it comes to procreation yet you continue this sad but now extremely amusing denial of basic 4th grade science.

    hint: There's a reason they are called "reproductive organs" CC

    Please explain how this has anything to do with the discussion. I'll give you a hint...it doesn't. And while you're at it, perhaps you can explain why homosexuality has been around since the beginning of recorded history....and undoubtedly beyond that.
    I've already explained it twice but I'll break out the crayons for you once more. It proves the natural connection between heterosexuality and nature. Cannibalism has also been around since the begging of time. An act does not make it natural. Your inability to prove any natural connection to homosexuality is just sad you keep clinging to it.

    Which is precisely what you are doing. Thank you.
    Actually I have supported my argument by citing the history of the species and the sexual drives and woman's sexual cycles for pregnancy that only heterosexual sex and produce a child naturally.

    You on the other had have provided no evidence. None, nada, zilch, nothing. That is why your argument is a circular one.

    These are examples of the appeal to nature logical fallacy...another fallacy that you do not understand. This is why your argument is invalid and irrelevant.
    Logical fallacy is a parent definition to other specific fallacies. Its painfully obvious you didn't even know that.

    Now please, point to the specific fallacy you are claiming and quote what I said thats supports this laughable charge.

    Hint: Googling a term you don't understand is pretty obvious. Try not to do it again.

    Misrepresenting my position, again. I never claimed that sexual orientation is hereditary. You might want to read my posts a little more carefully. Might help to educate you not only on the issue, but so you don't constantly err in misrepresenting folks:
    Another lie by you.

    I quote:

    Second, homosexuality also occurs in nature, so on the right/wrong scale it is equivalent to heterosexuality.
    Please make your decesion on what false argument you are going to go with next time mmmkay?

    And also, your theory on the rates of homosexuality are ridiculous and do not fit in with biological genetics.
    From the guy who claims genetics has nothing do with it. Then says it does. Then says it doesn't

    If blue eyes are inherited, why are their fewer blue eyed people? Read a bit on genetics to understand this concept.
    Thats called a recessive gene and it can be proven

    Are you going to claim now that homosexuality is a recessive gene therefore going back to your original genetics argument?

    Please make up your mind as to what argument you are going to make and stick with it.

    Again, all irrelevant to the argument.
    LOL Of course you would say that since it proves heterosexuality has a genetic basis in nature.

    All you are doing is discussing procreation and the heterosexual act.
    Yeah. Kinda goes to my entire point. lol

    You STILL can't grasp the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
    And you STILL can't prove homosexuality is a natural sexual orientation in any way shape or form.

    Guess what? Someone who is homosexual can, through a heterosexual act, procreate.
    Thanks for making my point for me, again. The point being that ONLY heterosexual sex can propegate the species naturally. There is NO natural function of homosexuality and therefore no basis in considering it as natural as heterosexual orientation as you have claimed then denied you made the claim.

    There, now that I have dismissed the "procreation" part of your argument, what are you going to do?
    Thats your problem. You can't dismiss procreation as a key component to heterosexual sex because it is a requirement to propegate the species unlike homosexuality which you can't even prove is as likely as heterosexual orientation even though you made that specific claim.

    Hell, you wont even admit what the function of a sexual organ is

    Still don't know the difference between "acts" and "orientation". I'm guessing that this is deliberate because that admission would relegate your position to nothing but rubble.
    Actually what I was addressing if you had read carefully, was your argument that just because homosexuality has been found throughout history that somehow makes it natural.

    again, your quote:

    Second, homosexuality also occurs in nature, so on the right/wrong scale it is equivalent to heterosexuality.
    Do you even bother to read what you claim? My response to you was just because homosexuality has been found in history does not make it natural. Cannibalism, human sacrifice have both been found in the history of man but that in no way makes them natural. It is the flimsiest of arguments you use to support yourself.

    And once again, without a fact or study to support your claim.

    You have done nothing of the sort. All you have done is demonstrate that you do not understand the issue, genetics, or the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior. Yeah...I think that about covers it.
    Dodging again I see. I'll repeat:

    Please explain how the first humans "learned" how to procreate without oral or written language.

    Please list all studies you have that show homosexual orientation has a natural history beyond the act being in history.

    Go right ahead....

    Say it 100 times. Until you understand the difference that I have mentioned MORE than 9 times, your position on this is meaningless. And inaccurate.
    Still can't admit the burden of proof is on the side that wants to change the law

    Sad really because you know you can't prove it which is why you try to dishonestly shift the burden of proof on your opposite side.

    No, I wrote 3 messages in a row to dispel all the myths that folks like you are presenting. I consider it a public service to correct inaccuracies like yours.
    If you want to send a positive public message support your claims with some hard facts from actual studies instead of staying in the world of theory.

    I demonstrated how your position is completely illogical. You have addressed none of the challenges that I have made to the logic of your position, successfully. That makes your position what is known as a "losing" position. If you can address any of my logical destruction of your position, I'd like to see it. Thus far, you've given us a big goose egg.

    Poor textmaster. I know, it must suck to have been so thoroughly demolished. Feel free to keep posting your non-logic, your logical fallacies, and your inaccuracies. I will continue to deftly demonstrate how invalid they are.
    Once again you prove you cannot prove anything you are claiming. You are permanently stuck in the world of theory and you refuse to get out because you can't find the evidence that supports your claims.

    Its a sad sad little world you have made for yourself and your denial of even basic sexual function and the role of sexual organs in the body itself makes it all the more calamitous.


    But I do want to thank you for this line.

    Please show one study that clearly demonstrates that the penis and vagina were designed for procreation.


    If I had room in my sig, this would be there in lights. It is by far the funniest argument I have ever seen on this issue. Makes for a great laugh.
    Last edited by texmaster; 12-21-09 at 01:49 PM.
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