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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

  1. #231
    Androgyne
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Page 1.



    The Civil Rights Movement 1955-1965: Introduction

    The civil rights movement was about African American equality and in some cases equality for women.

    Both African Americans and women are defined by genetics. It is not a lifestyle.

    Page 3

    so did interracial marriage. btw, a goat can't consent.

    Again, a comparison of homosexuality to race.

    To make such a comparison requires a common thread. Genetics would be the only common thread.

    Another example page 11

    so it was ok for that minister not to marry the interracial couple? oh, he wasn't a minister? a justice of the peace?

    So the race comparison was made not once, not twice but at least 3 times probably more before I ever joined the thread on page 19.


    So yes, the claim was made long before I ever even joined making the burden of proof on the people who made and support that claim.
    Perhaps the claim was made by someone, but was it made and supported by the people whom you are arguing with right now? I for one never made the claim that it was genetic. I also think that there is sufficient proof lacking to ultimately prove either side of the "born that way" vs. "choice" argument. You are demanding proof from people who never made that argument in the first place and not only that, but failing to supply proof for your own assertion and using faulty logic to justify it.

  2. #232
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Of course murder can be an aspect of life. If someone is murdered you know, that is an aspect of your life. If you see a murder, that is an aspect of life.

    This is why your claim that homosexuality can be specifically defined by aspect of life when the phrase itself covers everything in life from birth to death a ridiculous argument.

    You are going to have to face the fact that gay marriage is not specifically covered there and therefore they absolutely went against the rights of the people to vote on the issue by denying that vote.
    If it had to be specifically covered, they would not have added the phrase "not limited to" phrase. The meaning is clear, you are only throwing out all these ridiculous objections because you don't like the reality.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Perhaps the claim was made by someone, but was it made and supported by the people whom you are arguing with right now? I for one never made the claim that it was genetic. I also think that there is sufficient proof lacking to ultimately prove either side of the "born that way" vs. "choice" argument. You are demanding proof from people who never made that argument in the first place and not only that, but failing to supply proof for your own assertion and using faulty logic to justify it.
    The general belief among those studying the issue is both nature and nurture are causes of orientation.

    Edit: I use that phrase specifically for a reason. Nature does not mean genetics, but physical.
    Last edited by Redress; 12-16-09 at 05:50 PM.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #234
    Androgyne
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Frankly, I could care less whether it is ultimately genetic or a choice. Either way, I see no reason to deny homosexuals the ability to get married. They are consenting adults.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Frankly, I could care less whether it is ultimately genetic or a choice. Either way, I see no reason to deny homosexuals the ability to get married. They are consenting adults.
    I find the topic interesting, but ultimately it does not change my views on things like gay marriage and gays in the military.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #236
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    There was a time I believed that a civil union was a fair compromise. However, I have come to the conclusion that issuing a separate but equal license will only lead to further attempts by the opposition to legally tie up the rights granted by the civil union. If the license is the exact same, right down to the name, I see much less wiggle room for them to try to diminish our rights and freedoms without doing the same to theirs.




    I said division politics that pit liberty against religion. Secularism vs Fundamentalism. Mainstreaming the extremes of both parties during elections but then spurning them when the election is over. Pitting left against right over the devil in the details when the whole time, both parties are after the exact same thing: peaceful coexistence within a plural society.

    Adherence to tradition, personally, doesn't fly in the face of gay marriage. It is a nod to recognizing your traditions are yours and don't have to be validated by society as a whole. Respect for our elders, passing moral instruction to our children, observance of holidays and religious celebrations...these things don't need to be codefied into law. People need to take responsibility for these practices as individuals regardless of what society says.

    Well, I have to go for now, but suffice to say, that I enjoyed this debate, and was truly educated to your point of view. I may not agree with the method, and tactic word for word, but I hope we both arrive at the same place in the end, fore there are really dire things that deserve our attention, and you are as much a concerned American as am I.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  7. #237
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Let's not pretend that you are concerned about "We the people".
    I am one and so is everyone I know....cept this Australian chick I know....she's well...Australian, so that is my concern. What is yours, your agenda?

    You are concerned with nothing but your own impositions.
    My Mom once told me as soon as the argument gets personal, you;ve won. She was right.

    There is no logical reason to not allow same-sex marriage, only subjective nonsense.
    Lots of logical reasons, the first is many don't feel it's the equal of one man and one woman wed in matrimony. And they're right, it's not.

    That is where a line must be drawn in a legal system based on liberty, it must contain an objective element that exceeds the subjectiveness.
    Gotta contain...hold on...an "objective element" that "exceeds subjectiveness?" That's right out of the constitution, huh?

    Just because you do not like something does not mean it must be promulgated into law. Can people like you comprehend this?
    Absolutely we can comprehend. I don't like abortion but it's legal. I don't like most of the liberal Democrats in Congress right now...but they're legal. Neither of us would have liked the 9-11 hijackers to be here legally, they were anyway! That's an easy comprehension, it's reality.

    Your reasoning takes away freedoms and imposes your selfish restrictions on an entire population of people,
    Restrictions that apply to all, I cannot wed within gender either and I'm a happy hetero.

    same-sex marriage proponents reasoning allows everyone to be free and live their lives.
    Doesn't allow society to define its own institutions.

    Absolutely nothing in your life is being diminished due to same-sex marriage.
    Except the right to define my own culture.

    You, on the other hand, are creating 2nd class citizens by allowing a government based on liberty to restrict people under the law. That is what this is about, people like you wanting to feel like you are above another group of people. So do not pretend to care about "We the people."
    If not for you on the Left exposing yourselves constantly, I might just believe this. But, President Clinton signed the Doma into law, President Obama personally opposes ssm as well, so do so many other democrats who voted for the doma(that vote 342 to 67 in the House, 85-14 in the Senate). Noted names such as Liebermann, Chris Dodd(who ran for President), Joe Biden(current VP), the liberal late Paul Wellstone, Max Baucus, Harry Reid, former Minority Leader Tom Daschle, and Dems from West Virginia Byrd and Rockefeller ALL voted yea. Are these people EVER accused of "wanting to feel like you are above another group of people." Of course not, your emotion is getting the best of you here, we know this name calling is insincere on this issue cause...as soon as a Dem opposed ssm, it's swept under the rug. Obama doesn;t support same sex marriage, is he one of this "group you speak of?

    Oops.

    Our Constitution is not a toy,
    And why we take the right to define our institutions seriously.

    it is not a means to impose what you want society to be like.
    Nonsense. It can be used for a the basis for zoning keeping prostitutes and porn theaters out of my neighborhood. It can outlaw indecent behavior such as public obscenities, public nudity, unnecessary public displays of affection. IT can outlaw third term abortions, it can affect a whole lot to do with our culture and society, wake up.

    The Constitution is meant to be law imposed on the government, not the people.
    Government governs by the consent of the governed. Government has been given consent here that we'd very much like to discriminate based on gender as far as marriage is concerned. There are processes that can overturn that reality, but, they haven't been that successful.

    It restricts the government and allows for freedoms to its citizens.
    Yes, the freedom to define marriage.

    The fact that you would support a constitutional amendment that bans same-sex marriage only shows your lack of knowledge on what our system of government is.
    I actually initially opposed a ssm amendment, I believe this is a measure best left to the states. However, when I saw the agenda was to simply crawl from state to state and clog up the dockets with same sex marriage, I supported a federal amendment that would reinforce DOMA and making it clear if one state approves gets fruity and kooky and starts marrying same gender, it doesn't apply across the fruited plain.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  8. #238
    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, this is exactly in line with the constituents' decision-making process. DC's city council and mayor were elected by the voters of DC. The voters have the power to vote them out of office if they're upset. Similarly, gay marriage has been legalized in other states by courts that were appointed by the elected representatives of the people. The voters have the power to vote their officials out of office and elect people who promise to appoint anti-gay judges instead, if that's what they want.
    Sounds like you and I agree here, it's a We the People decision, correct? I mean if the court says its unConstitutional simly do back...and amend your Constitution. Hand it to the court and say "interpret this."

    On the other hand, an amendment to the US Constitution banning gay marriage *would* yank the issue from the constituents' decision-making process.
    An amendment...you do know what the amendment process is, 2/3rds majority and all of that....would "yank" the issue away from Constituents? Really? What other federal emendment yanks decision making from the constituent?

    As they should. Frankly it shouldn't be any of Congress' goddamn business what we decide to do in DC, except inasmuch as it affects the workings of the federal government.
    Can we stop the federal funds supporting your fair city then? I mean if it ain;t none of my business.......why should ANYTHING going on in DC...ACORN, poverty, AIDS, crime, gun control, why should ANY of it be under government purview, correct? Sure you've thought this argument out, it sounds unreasonable to me. Unrealistic and flat out silly really.

    Why? Why do we the people need to decide that, instead of our elected representatives?
    I have said it before I'd rather see a referendum, but as long as its a legislative endeavor, no matter the decision, I'll support it. I would hope you'd do the same.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  9. #239
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Doesn't the Federal part come in when a marriage has to be recognized by another state?


    j-mac
    As far as the federal government is concerned:
    1) Marriage is a 1 man 1 women arrangement
    2) No state must recognize homosexual marriages from other states

  10. #240
    Sage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    As far as the federal government is concerned:
    1) Marriage is a 1 man 1 women arrangement
    2) No state must recognize homosexual marriages from other states
    Seems like a violation of the Full Faith and Credit clause to me. But we shall see as it winds it way through the courts and eventually the SCOTUS.

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