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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

  1. #1411
    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Among long-term prison inmates, 70 percent grew up without fathers, as did 60 percent of rapists and 75 percent of adolescents charged with murder.
    Denial...ain't no river.

    63 percent of youth suicides are from fatherless homes — five times the average (U.S. Department of Heath Census)

    - 85 percent of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes — 20 times the average (Center for Disease Control)

    - 80 percent of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes — 14 times the average (Justice & Behavior)

    - 71 percent of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes — 9 times the average (National Principals Association Report)

    - 75 percent of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes — 10 times the average. (Rainbows for All God’s Children)

    - 70 percent of youths in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes — 9 times the average. (U.S. Department of Justice)

    - 85 percent of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes — 20 times the average. (Texas Department of Correction)
    How long would you like me to continue?

    Drug Use: "...the absence of the father in the home affects significantly the behavior of adolescents and results in the greater use of alcohol and marijuana."
    Source: Deane Scott Berman, "Risk Factors Leading to Adolescent Substance Abuse," Adolescence 30 (1995)

    Sexual abuse. A study of 156 victims of child sexual abuse found that the majority of the children came from disrupted or single-parent homes; only 31 percent of the children lived with both biological parents. Although stepfamilies make up only about 10 percent of all families, 27 percent of the abused children lived with either a stepfather or the mother's boyfriend.
    Runnin out of white flags, CT? Admit your agenda and admit I'm much too educated on this matter...why not throw another tantrum and claim you're going home, call me another name or best yet, continue to ignore fact, it's just all so telling.

    Yours a political argument, you're not being objective. It's ok, I figured it out many posts ago.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    The common denominator for rapes amongst youth where the victim doesn't know her attacker......boys without a father in the home.

    Women can't father, CT. Sorry. It also seems odd to me you'd want this harm to happen to children...like you don't even care or something. It's just so shocking that these stats would be so clear and you would still deny children their fathers. Your arguments here I consider a threat to the fabric of this nation at worst, misogynistic at best.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  3. #1413
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Denial...ain't no river.
    As I said before, "Fatherless" statistics are single parent statistics. They come from single mothers, not from same sex couples.

    I have an absolutely wonderful idea. Why don't you provide the actual sample from which your statistics was taken? Why not provide the actual studies?

    Oh wait, you haven't read the actual studies! You only read these stats which were pulled out of the studies. You have no idea what the sample was or if same sex families were represented in it. You only assumed that because it said "fatherless" that you could apply it to same sex couples. You have absolutely no idea how to use statistics.

    Now how would a genuine researcher go about determining whether children of same sex families are at a disadvantage like "fatherless" children in single parent families? Well, they would actually study same sex families. Oh wait! Such studies have been done, and they find that children raised by same sex couples are not at such a disadvantage! In fact, they turn out pretty much as they would had they been raised by a different sex couple! I guess that proves that its not the gender of the parent that matters, but the fact that there is two of them. Imagine that!

    Seriously Charles. You are not smart.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 02:20 AM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    As I said before, "Fatherless" statistics are single parent statistics. They come from single mothers, not from same sex couples
    They are stats with no father in the home, it has a clear effect, quit pretending, your argument is in absolute shambles and you're now embarrassing yourself.

    I have an absolutely wonderful idea. Why don't you provide the actual sample from which your statistics was taken? Why not provide the actual studies?
    I think your idea is a deflection. I got a better idea. Why not admit the facts are correct. Children, especially boys without a male role model in the home, suffer significantly. As 'gay' parents are NO different...by your own admission, then the lack of a father in those homes suffer the same fate. And your denial is quite telling here.

    The fact that you'd allow children to suffer with this argument...shameful. I must say, I have no respect for your argument here. Not that it matters, I merely find it vulgar and harmful and downright naive. i normally don't speak to process, but, yours is so terrible here, I simply must. Don't you care about the children?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    They are stats with no father in the home, it has a clear effect, quit pretending, your argument is in absolute shambles and you're now embarrassing yourself.
    Prove it. Provide the actual studies or samples. I contest that these are stats of children of single mothers. Prove me wrong.

    The fact of the matter is that you read these statistics and you made the assumption that the researchers who were referring to the need for fathers in homes meant that they were arguing that both genders were needed. That is wrong. They were arguing that two parent homes were better for children. They never even considered or studied same sex homes. Your statistics are irrelevant and you just can't see it.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 02:31 AM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Snippet
    This is why I hate debating at length on the internet.

    Person A brings up damning source, person B refutes it with a shake of the head and allusions to (as yet) non-existent source. Rinse, wash, and repeat.

  7. #1417
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You made the mistake of assuming that I was arguing that same sex couples deserve the right to marriage soley because it would be beneficial. In that case, you would be right that inceustous couples could arguably deserve the same right. However, this amounted to little more than a straw man.
    You're still confused, so let's review. Here's the argument we're discussing - the one I said was not much of an argument:
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought
    As far as my position, I have argued time and time again, with evidence, that same sex marriage would be good for the 8 to 10 million children of gay and lesbian parents in this country.
    My judgement is that your argument is weak, generic and laughable, especially given the amount of crap you sling at other posters.

    This has led you to refine your argument, based solely on some silly analogical examples I used to illustrate some gaping holes:
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought
    My actual argument is that millions of children could benefit from same sex marriage and most of the evidence suggests that children raised by same sex couples turn out just as well as those raised by different sex couples.

    It still needs A LOT of work. As it is, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that there's any logic in there. All you've really provided is a couple of premises and haven't even bothered to state why they support the conclusion.

  8. #1418
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Areopagitican View Post
    This is why I hate debating at length on the internet.

    Person A brings up damning source, person B refutes it with a shake of the head and allusions to (as yet) non-existent source. Rinse, wash, and repeat.
    Dude, I have been fighting this guy with reason and evidence for 20 some pages. I refuted his stats time and time again but he is literally an idiot. He thinks he can apply single parent stats (aka his "fatherless" stats) to same sex couples when the researchers of those studies never even considered or measured anything of the sort. He thinks that the researchers conclusions about the need for fathers means that gender is important, when the reality is that his statistics only prove that having two parents is important. You know, having twice the income and being able to provide twice the attention, etc. He ignores the countless studies, like these....

    http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/p06.pdf
    The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children -- Pawelski et al. 118 (1): 349 -- Pediatrics

    ...which actually directly study same sex couples and provide evidence that they do raise children just as well as different sex couples do. I've lost all my patience with the guy because he is adamant about not listening to reason. I just don't think he knows how to interpret statistics.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 02:45 AM.

  9. #1419
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You're still confused, so let's review. Here's the argument we're discussing - the one I said was not much of an argument:

    My judgement is that your argument is weak, generic and laughable, especially given the amount of crap you sling at other posters.

    This has led you to refine your argument, based solely on some silly analogical examples I used to illustrate some gaping holes:


    It still needs A LOT of work. As it is, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that there's any logic in there. All you've really provided is a couple of premises and haven't even bothered to state why they support the conclusion.
    Okay, let's simplify it.

    8 to 10 million children could benefit from same sex marriage.

    Can you say the same about incestuous marriage?

    Didn't think so. Case closed. I could care less that you believe it is a weak argument, because you provide no valid rational for why it is a weak argument. Maybe you just don't care about children.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 02:45 AM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Okay, let's simply it.

    8 to 10 million children could benefit from same sex marriage.

    Can you say the same about incestuous marriage?

    Didn't think so. Case closed. I could care less that you believe it is a weak argument, because you provide no valid rational for why it is a weak argument. Maybe you just don't care about children.
    You still don't get it. I'm not arguing for and have never argued for incestuous marriages. I was pointing out that the "logic" you provided to support your conclusion was so vague and generic that it could just as easily be applied for things that nobody wants or is arguing for (e.g. incestuous marriage). If you don't like that example, pick another that involves more children.

    Nonetheless, you have no rationale for why we should help large groups of children but not small groups of children.

    Maybe you just don't care about children.
    Last edited by Taylor; 12-29-09 at 02:54 AM.

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