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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm not really sure I get the joke. Did you even read the link?

    Same sex marriage provides a context for legal, financial, and psychosocial well-being, an endorsement of interdependent care, and a form of public acknowledgment and respect for personal bonds. It's also beneficial the children's emotional and social development. Logic dictates that it is a reasonable argument because it is supported with evidence.
    Oh I agree it's a "reasonable" argument, the problem is that it's a rather weak argument -- thoroughly unconvincing. What limited "logic" exists in your argument could also apply to civil unions, and could also apply to just about any relationship you could think up.

    Don't you think it would help kids born of incest if we provided them with legal and financial benefits, endorsed their care, and publicly acknowledged and respected the personal bonds of their parents?

    To exaggerate, your "argument" boils down to: we should give people benefits because they can benefit from them.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Oh I agree it's a "reasonable" argument, the problem is that it's a rather weak argument -- thoroughly unconvincing. What limited "logic" exists in your argument could also apply to civil unions, and could also apply to just about any relationship you could think up.

    Don't you think it would help kids born of incest if we provided them with legal and financial benefits, endorsed their care, and publicly acknowledged and respected the personal bonds of their parents?

    To exaggerate, your "argument" boils down to: we should give people benefits because they can benefit from them.
    First off, you made an irrelevant comparison. What does same sex marriage have to do with incest? Your implication is that they are somehow the same but you might as well be comparing apples and oranges in that respect.

    Second, you made the argument that civil unions are comparable to marriage. This is also incorrect. Marriage guarantees over a thousand different rights that civil unions do not, and is the social recognition of the bond between two people, not just the civil recognition of the bond between two people.

    Third, your exaggeration, which is exactly what it is, fails to account for the fact that millions of children are currently being raised by gay parents and same sex couples, whereas very few are being raised by incestuous couples. Another fault in the implication of comparing the two, and the degree of benefit that would arise by giving same couples the right to marriage as opposed to incestuous couples.

    Fourth, more than 25 years of research indicates that same sex parents are just as capable of raising children as heterosexual parents. No such body of research supports incestuous couples.

    Frankly, you have demonstrated magnificently that you do not understand my positoin and that you can be just as illogical as Charles. Congrats.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    This is what the good Captain does. Rather than argue content, he argues process. My content cannot be addressed, it is my questions that have yet to be answered.
    You have no content, what you have presented has been refuted and you have refused to address questions asked of you. There is no more better description of "fail" than what you have done in this debate. Congratulations on that.

    But keep talking about me and no one else might realize you're wrong. Cause...you are.
    I'll keep talking about your failure in this debate simply because I like rubbing your nose in it and to continue to educate those who choose to be educated on how wrong you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    It was no attempt to bring religion into this, I haven't made the first argument concerning religion. You had claimed how "disgusted" you were that I'd allow children to remain at risk. I claimed that not giving children every chance in life was against my religion....trying to point out how silly that was for an argument given your ridiculous argument that you were "disgusted". It was an alike attempt for me to take the moral high ground and both yourself and Warspite jumped all over it. Now...if religion don't play here, those morals being irrelevant...so does the fact that you're disgusted. No one cares. Like you not caring what my religion is, I couldn;t care less if you're repulsed or disgusted. You can't take aim at my content as you know I'm dead on correct here, so...you attack the process. It's trasparent...I just want you to know that.

    I couldn't care less for your disgust, the fact that you're trying to take the
    You've been so thoroughly decimated in this debate and has your position so completely destroyed that you don't even know who you are talking to. I never made any of those claims. Critical Thought did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Debating doesn't apply to process. If you don't like HOW I'm getting my points across, it's irrelevant. I am getting points acorss, my points stand up there like Rudolph's antlers and the fact that you two cannot address the content...but would like to fault process instead..is quite telling.

    Means you're losing the argument.
    Problem is your content is irrelevant both because it is and because you don't understand the process of debate. If you did, you wouldn't present the content that you have because you'd KNOW it was irrelevant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    First off, you made an irrelevant comparison. What does same sex marriage have to do with incest? Your implication is that they are somehow the same but you might as well be comparing apples and oranges in that respect.
    Nothing -- it's showing how hopelessly generic your argument is through use of analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Second, you made the argument that civil unions are comparable to marriage. This is also incorrect. Marriage guarantees over a thousand different rights that civil unions do not, and is the social recognition of the bond between two people, not just the civil recognition of the bond between two people.
    I made no arguments, I was merely pointing out that (again) your argument is hopelessly generic. You have shown no evidence, nor does your argument distinguish the two. It's a poor argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Third, your exaggeration, which is exactly what it is, fails to account for the fact that millions of children are currently being raised by gay parents and same sex couples, whereas very few are being raised by incestuous couples.
    So... what?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Frankly, you have demonstrated magnificently that you do not understand my positoin and that you can be just as illogical as Charles. Congrats.
    On the contrary, you have shown us that you haven't thought too deeply about the issue, and that your understanding of critical thinking does not extend much beyond references to wikipedia-style listings of logical fallacies - many of which you fail to understand because you repeatedly apply them to premises rather than arguments.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Good to see. It's going to take the U.S. awhile to get used to it as a whole.
    Moderate Union: a Canadian with a political blog on Canadian politics.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Nothing -- it's showing how hopelessly generic your argument is through use of analogy.


    I made no arguments, I was merely pointing out that (again) your argument is hopelessly generic. You have shown no evidence, nor does your argument distinguish the two. It's a poor argument.


    So... what?


    On the contrary, you have shown us that you haven't thought too deeply about the issue, and that your understanding of critical thinking does not extend much beyond references to wikipedia-style listings of logical fallacies - many of which you fail to understand because you repeatedly apply them to premises rather than arguments.
    Your argument is illogical and therefore irrelevant. You did not consider that there are millions of children who would benefit from same sex couples having the right to marry when there is very few children being raised by parents in an incestuous relationship who would benefit. You also didn't consider that there is a body of evidence to suggest that same sex couples can raise children just as well as different sex couples, but there is no such body of evidence to suggest so for incestuous couples.

    You made the mistake of assuming that I was arguing that same sex couples deserve the right to marriage soley because it would be beneficial. In that case, you would be right that inceustous couples could arguably deserve the same right. However, this amounted to little more than a straw man.

    My actual argument is that millions of children could benefit from same sex marriage and most of the evidence suggests that children raised by same sex couples turn out just as well as those raised by different sex couples.

    You cannot make such an argument for incestuous couples.

    Please try to understand people's arguments before you engage in straw man making. It makes you look utterly foolish. If you can provide proof that there are millions of children who are being raised by incestuous couples and evidence suggesting that incestuous couples are doing just a good a job raising children as nonincestous families, then you might have an argument to counter mine instead of an incredibly obvious straw man.

    And frankly, you might want to work on your own critical thinking ability before you try to judge the critical thinking ability of others. I'm getting rather bored with decimating yours and Charles's arguments over and over again. If you take issue with how I have argued any logical fallacy in this thread, then please provide an example of it.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 12:23 AM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It is to be expected. His main argument is based on the completely unsubstantiated and refuted belief that both genders need to be present within a family for children to be raised correctly.
    Only unsubstantiated if you ignore the mountains of evidence I've provided, while ignoring the reality of no fathers in the home in your own community, meanwhile pushing your now ever present and obvious agenda.

    If he doesn't have that, then he has nothing and he knows it, so he will ignore any evidence to the contrary of that belief and will distort any evidence he can to support his view.
    I've asked before perhaps you have different evidence. The fact that no father in the home ranks as the common denominator from drug use, to education level, to prison time served. Your blindness is crowned by your glaring and colossal errors to date on this matter.

    Once I realized that much, I understood how pathetic his position was, and I lost my desire to debate him.
    Pathetic because you cannot address it. so easy was everyone but a few in here who had an argument you just couldn't address. Emotional and in an untenable position, your argument now chooses to ignore fact and deny reality and reason.

    Lots of name calling, no answers to my questions, no addressing the actual topic. This is so fun, but I do wish the opposition would turn its' difficulty level up. I grow tired of the tired arguments of denial CT, do you have anything else...cause I'm about to shelve your theories here as more of the same and call it a day. Another lil sticker for the fuselage on my now famous right wing fighter.

    Oh...here's your argument...sorry it looks..different
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Only unsubstantiated if you ignore the mountains of evidence I've provided, while ignoring the reality of no fathers in the home in your own community, meanwhile pushing your now ever present and obvious agenda.
    What mountain of evidence? All you provided were stats which could only be used to argue that two parent families are better off that single parent families. You have yet to provide a single speck of evidence to indicate that both sexes are needed to raise children .

    I've asked before perhaps you have different evidence. The fact that no father in the home ranks as the common denominator from drug use, to education level, to prison time served. Your blindness is crowned by your glaring and colossal errors to date on this matter.
    "Fatherless" statistics are single parent statistics. You are accusing me of being blind when you don't even know how to interpret basic statistics? Why do you continue to embarrass yourself like this? Do you actually have any evidence to indicate that children raised in lesbian homes, not single mother homes, but by a lesbian couples, are anymore likely to use drugs, have a lower education, or spend time in prison? Of course you don't. You can only distort single parent statistics, and pretend like you know what the hell you are talking about.

    Pathetic because you cannot address it. so easy was everyone but a few in here who had an argument you just couldn't address. Emotional and in an untenable position, your argument now chooses to ignore fact and deny reality and reason.
    You are ignoring the basic rules of statistics. Frankly, you are proving yourself too ignorant to be worth debating. Can you really not see why you can't apply single parents stats to same sex couples? Are you really that uneducated?

    Lots of name calling, no answers to my questions, no addressing the actual topic. This is so fun, but I do wish the opposition would turn its' difficulty level up. I grow tired of the tired arguments of denial CT, do you have anything else...cause I'm about to shelve your theories here as more of the same and call it a day. Another lil sticker for the fuselage on my now famous right wing fighter.
    Frankly, I presented my argument. You were unable to refute it and you choose instead to use red herring tactics to avoid actually discussing the evidence.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-29-09 at 12:40 AM.

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