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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Finally. This does have real tangible evidence.

    And I will concede based the evidence presented does support the argument that children raised by stable lesbian and gay men couples do not according to these studies have an adverse effect on the child being raised.
    Thank you. I appreciate your honesty.

    However, I am concerned to how the data was obtained. One professor that was sourced many times over does not interview the couples or the children but instead relies on questionnaires, a very poor research tool.

    . Fifty same-sex partners (25 couples) have completed questionnaires evaluating various individual, marital, parental and social aspects associated to parenthood. Variance analysis of theses aspects have shown the effects of two factors that is, the type of mother (biological/non-biological) and the procreation mode (known/unknown genitor).

    http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cbs/39/2/135/
    Actually, that is not true. Questionnaires are more reliable than interviews because they are far more generic. Interviews can be more easily subjective.

    One on one interviews would have provided far more reliable data because they can evaluate body language and see reactions to certain questions in real time.
    Too subjective. How one person reads body language is different than how others might. I've conducted research studies. Questionnaires are more reliable.

    Another author, again cited extensively relies only on volunteers which is not a proper sampling.

    Existing research on children with lesbian parents is limited by reliance on volunteer or convenience samples.
    Volunteers [I]can[I]negatively influence reliability, but not necessarily. Good point, though.

    Children with lesbian parents: a community study. [Dev Psychol. 2003] - PubMed result

    Another author whose work is cited is itself citing others instead of doing the research themselves making it harder to track.

    http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/cbrp98.pdf
    Ummm...no, that is a study done by the authors themselves.

    In your second study we find this:

    The study had been based on a convenience sample that had been assembled by word of mouth. It was therefore impossible to rule out the possibility that families who participated in the research
    were especially well adjusted.


    So we explore more into the article and once again we find the reliance on questionaires mailed to the households with no supervision when they were filled out, if the child was assisted or if another advocacy group assisted the families.

    Materials were mailed to participating families, with instructions to complete them privately and return them in self-addressed stamped envelopes we provided.


    This is not scientific research and it certainly does not explore the true psychological makeup of the child in these families because if this was out psychotherapy worked, no one would ever visit and therapist.
    Been a while since I've looked at this study. You could be right about this one. I would not conduct research this way, but I need to take a harder look at it for validity's sake.

    Again, I do concede if I based my findings solely on the evidence provided in the article and did not investigate the methods they use or the sampling they took, I would concede the conclusions you drew on earlier but now that I have done the research on the authors I find their sampling flawed based on volunteers no doubt eager to show how normal they are or based on questionnaires which are not sufficient to draw conclusions from since their body language and thought process cannot be explored.
    I do not agree. An interview is far more subjective than a well designed questionnaire.



    I asked you to support yourself with actual evidence which you did. I'm not denying that. But you would do well to dig into the articles and find out why they have to keep citing other studies to support the very conclusions you agree with and what methods they used to gather the data to support those conclusions.
    It is common practice when conducting research to cite other studies both in the introduction and discussion sections. The studies themselves relied on the data they obtained.

    You can't be content because someone cited an article that makes the facts infallible. You have to dig to find out what methods they used to draw their conclusions.

    Relying on volunteers and questionnaires for psychological evaluation is flat out lazy science and riddled with inaccuracies. Its the reason psychologists have offices and do not hand out questionnaires and base their findings on what someone wrote down.
    No, both of these practices are standard and in most cases produce far more reliable results. If one chooses random sampling for a study, one often gets unwilling participants who can create skewed data. Using volunteers and questionnaires do not, in general, create reliability problems. Questionnaires certainly not, and volunteers mostly not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Moderator's Warning:
    DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriageapdst. Stop the "Libbos" comments...and the like. You are baiting.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Would one of the arguments in this topic be that the cause of the suicides is not being gay, but societal impact on gays?
    Someone goes to the head of the class. Yes, from all the information that I have seen, that would be true.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #1194
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Someone goes to the head of the class. Yes, from all the information that I have seen, that would be true.
    It's not that I am particularly smart, just that I got to see alot of this up close. Visiting your mother in a mental hospital where she had to go when the stress got too thick once is a surreal event.

    I find it interesting that people who are quick to point out the self destructive behavior of some gays are also quick to discount how much the pressures of being gay in the last 30 + years have to do with that behavior. it's not an excuse for that behavior, but it is a reason, and a place to put some hope. As society has changed, the pressures are lessening, which I think and hope will lead to more stable, less self destructive gay community.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not that I am particularly smart, just that I got to see alot of this up close. Visiting your mother in a mental hospital where she had to go when the stress got too thick once is a surreal event.

    I find it interesting that people who are quick to point out the self destructive behavior of some gays are also quick to discount how much the pressures of being gay in the last 30 + years have to do with that behavior. it's not an excuse for that behavior, but it is a reason, and a place to put some hope. As society has changed, the pressures are lessening, which I think and hope will lead to more stable, less self destructive gay community.
    For example, although studies are very sketchy on this issue, do you know what occupation is one of the most elevated as far as successful suicides? Doctors. Why do you think? Being a doctor is extremely stressful Now, obviously, this is not genetic, but the number one reason for suicide is depression/stress. Just as being a doctor is more stressful than other jobs, being gay is more stressful than not, because of societal issues surrounding being gay.

    Here is an interesting article on the topic:

    Doctors Have Highest Suicide Rate of Any Profession - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

    Consider this based on what the article says about physicians. The have a very stressful job. Their job can be, literally, life or death. Their mistakes get magnified. They are always a doctor, even at outings. There is a stigma around seeking mental health treatment for doctors. They often have to be the bearer of bad news. All things that bring on stress and depression.

    Let's look at gays. Often can't be open about their sexual orientation because of potential retributions. Difficulty with employers. May get ostracized by their church. May be isolated from family. Cannot marry someone they love. These are all issues that bring on stress and depression.

    The issue is situational. Take anyone and give them this level of stress and their rate of sucidality will go up.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #1196
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    A state sanctioned document doesn't stop spousal abuse, nor does it ensure monogamy. Lack of that document doesn't prevent siblings from having sex, nor does it excuse a parent from child support.
    Like most laws, marriage laws promote healthy behavior they do not guarantee it.

  7. #1197
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It is unfortunate that you have not posted one relevant fact in this entire debate. Like I've said, your errors cannot be measured by modern technology.
    The fact that you cannot prove me wrong nor shield your argument from the truth doesn't mean my argument isn't both relevant and factual.

    I haven't had my question answered btw.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Charles Martel,

    Since you continually take things out of context and only cherry pick what you want to hear you are no longer worth debating. Those kinds of moves clearly indicate a closed mind that is here in this thread more to promote a percieved agenda than to actually discuss and debate things.
    Kal, why not pretend you are a professor at a university debate...and using the same structure. Claiming "out of context" and "cherry picking" wouldn't be the norm here as that's an argument concerning process, and not content.

    I still haven't had my questions answered and now have many who would like to end the conversation. And that is quite telling.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Kal, why not pretend you are a professor at a university debate...and using the same structure. Claiming "out of context" and "cherry picking" wouldn't be the norm here as that's an argument concerning process, and not content.

    I still haven't had my questions answered and now have many who would like to end the conversation. And that is quite telling.
    It speaks volumes about you, Charles.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    It speaks volumes about you, Charles.
    The issue isn't about me either.....

    I realize you're gonna argue me and not the content of my argument as well, I find that quite telling is all. I think I'm right...and I think ya'll know it.

    I'm on solid ground here, might be time for another smilie and a wave with a pretend you've won the argument tactic. Quite common strat in here, transparent as it gets but, common nonetheless.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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