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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    - I forgot you can't follow threads. Here - let bold it for you baby :
    Want to expand on your intepretation of my point, blood?

    I'm saying that the government has replaced the black father and that is bad. Are you disagreeing?
    Last edited by apdst; 12-23-09 at 04:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Want to expand on your intepretation of my point, blood?
    I'm not related to ignorant people so please don't call me blood. My interpretation of your point? To make a point you have to actually provide supporting arguments. You made a single statement. That statement is proven untrue. The African American Family as your seemed to want to depict it is a myth.

    The belief that once upon a time black families were something like the All American Family is proven to be untrue as the black community has for the most part of the last 150 years been characterized by high levels of not just criminality among males but also higher than average levels of teen pregnancies among females. Do you have any other baseless comments to make displaying your total ignorance of this subject?

    -----------

    Adding :

    I'm saying that the government has replaced the black father and that is bad. Are you disagreeing?
    That is not what you said. This is what you said :

    seeing what the Libbos have done to the black community in this country. They've run the father out of the black family.
    I've shown how you how this is entirely false as the myth of the family is exactly that. A myth. There was never any real fathers to run out in the first place.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-23-09 at 04:44 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm not related to ignorant people so please don't call me blood. My interpretation of your point? To make a point you have to actually provide supporting arguments. You made a single statement. That statement is proven untrue. The African American Family as your seemed to want to depict it is a myth.

    The belief that once upon a time black families were something like the All American Family is proven to be untrue as the black community has for the most part of the last 150 years been characterized by high levels of not just criminality among males but also higher than average levels of teen pregnancies among females. Do you have any other baseless comments to make displaying your total ignorance of this subject?
    At one time, in this country, black fathers and black mothers lived together and raised their kids together. Obviously, not to the same extent as white failies, but to much larger extent than they do no. The effects on contemporary generations of children of the patriarchal absence is obvious.

    Let us not believe the revisionist history. At one time, blacks in America had their **** together. Those days are gone, forever I fear.

    I don't blame Libbos, totally, we have ourselves to blame, but the Libbos are constantly insituting policies that hurt blacks more han help them. If these policies were only a decade old, then I could accept ignorance as an excuse, however these policies are half a century old, so ignorance is no longer an excuse. At this point, it can only be the intentional destruction of slf dependence among the members of the black community in America.

    The increased divorce rate among blacks has contributed to a decrease in the number of black 2-parent families. In 1970, 68% of black families had both the husband and wife present. This number dropped to just 50% in 1990, a decrease of 18 percentage points over 20 years, compared with a 6-percentage-point decrease over the same time period for white families. Black wives and husbands are also more likely to separate. Sixteen percent of black couples between the ages of 18 and 44 have separated, versus 4% of comparable white couples. Racial differences in divorce and separation rates persist, independent of education and parental marital status.


    Black Men And Divorce: Implications For Culturally Competent Practice | Minority Health Today | Find Articles at BNET
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Finally. This does have real tangible evidence.

    And I will concede based the evidence presented does support the argument that children raised by stable lesbian and gay men couples do not according to these studies have an adverse effect on the child being raised.

    However, I am concerned to how the data was obtained. One professor that was sourced many times over does not interview the couples or the children but instead relies on questionnaires, a very poor research tool.

    . Fifty same-sex partners (25 couples) have completed questionnaires evaluating various individual, marital, parental and social aspects associated to parenthood. Variance analysis of theses aspects have shown the effects of two factors that is, the type of mother (biological/non-biological) and the procreation mode (known/unknown genitor).

    http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cbs/39/2/135/

    One on one interviews would have provided far more reliable data because they can evaluate body language and see reactions to certain questions in real time.

    Another author, again cited extensively relies only on volunteers which is not a proper sampling.

    Existing research on children with lesbian parents is limited by reliance on volunteer or convenience samples.

    Children with lesbian parents: a community study. [Dev Psychol. 2003] - PubMed result

    Another author whose work is cited is itself citing others instead of doing the research themselves making it harder to track.

    http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/cbrp98.pdf


    In your second study we find this:

    The study had been based on a convenience sample that had been assembled by word of mouth. It was therefore impossible to rule out the possibility that families who participated in the research
    were especially well adjusted.


    So we explore more into the article and once again we find the reliance on questionaires mailed to the households with no supervision when they were filled out, if the child was assisted or if another advocacy group assisted the families.

    Materials were mailed to participating families, with instructions to complete them privately and return them in self-addressed stamped envelopes we provided.


    This is not scientific research and it certainly does not explore the true psychological makeup of the child in these families because if this was out psychotherapy worked, no one would ever visit and therapist.

    Again, I do concede if I based my findings solely on the evidence provided in the article and did not investigate the methods they use or the sampling they took, I would concede the conclusions you drew on earlier but now that I have done the research on the authors I find their sampling flawed based on volunteers no doubt eager to show how normal they are or based on questionnaires which are not sufficient to draw conclusions from since their body language and thought process cannot be explored.



    I asked you to support yourself with actual evidence which you did. I'm not denying that. But you would do well to dig into the articles and find out why they have to keep citing other studies to support the very conclusions you agree with and what methods they used to gather the data to support those conclusions.

    You can't be content because someone cited an article that makes the facts infallible. You have to dig to find out what methods they used to draw their conclusions.

    Relying on volunteers and questionnaires for psychological evaluation is flat out lazy science and riddled with inaccuracies. Its the reason psychologists have offices and do not hand out questionnaires and base their findings on what someone wrote down.
    Let me get this right...you took the studies of single parents that Charles provided and argued they are irrefutable evidence of the harm caused to children with the absence of one gender in the home...which is inane beyond words...but then you dissect these studies with critical analysis of the tools of measurement and sampling methods...then you lecture on being objective in analysis. I sense quite a cognitive bias within you.

    Frankly, you have made one mistake. You have assumed that the limitations of qualitative measuring methods make them insufficient evidence. But there is a quantitative element to qualitative studies. If we were were only talking about one qualitative study, then you would be correct. But when you have dozens upon dozens of qualitative studies, from various samples across the country and various researchers and various qualitative measuring tools and methods, and all them have concluded that gay and lesbian parents are no better or worse than different sex couples at raising children, then you have a quantitative measure.

    Frankly, you have no evidence, aside from misused single parent statistics, to indicate that same sex couples are not adequate parents. The case is far stronger, both qualitatively and quantitatively in support of the argument that same sex parents are no better or worse parents that different sex parents.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-23-09 at 04:52 PM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I've shown how you how this is entirely false as the myth of the family is exactly that. A myth. There was never any real fathers to run out in the first place.
    I feel sorry for you, if you really believe that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    At one time, in this country, black fathers and black mothers lived together and raised their kids together. Obviously, not to the same extent as white failies, but to much larger extent than they do no. The effects on contemporary generations of children of the patriarchal absence is obvious.

    Let us not believe the revisionist history. At one time, blacks in America had their **** together. Those days are gone, forever I fear.

    I don't blame Libbos, totally, we have ourselves to blame, but the Libbos are constantly insituting policies that hurt blacks more han help them. If these policies were only a decade old, then I could accept ignorance as an excuse, however these policies are half a century old, so ignorance is no longer an excuse. At this point, it can only be the intentional destruction of slf dependence among the members of the black community in America.
    And this is not related to liberal stances on any particular issue but to many different sociological factors. Notice how the black single parent rate is about the same for both blacks and whites even though blacks have higher rates of criminality AND drug use problems. If anything it has much to do with women becoming more and more independent in both the work place and at home. Where before women were almost socially forced to have children and provide care for their families, after the 1940s they saw they could be as big a part of the house when it came to providing material support as men.

    Single Parent Statistics - Average Single Parent Statistics

    She is Divorced or Separated:
    Of the mothers who are custodial parents:

    * 44% are currently divorced or separated
    * 33% have never been married
    * 22% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.)
    * 1% were widowed
    Father-only and Mother-only, Single-Parent Family Status of Black Girls and Achievement in Grade Twelve and at Two-years Post High School | Journal of Negro Education, The | Find Articles at BNET

    In 1965, Moynihan reinforced this view, linking "pathology" with Black female-headed families, by proposing that Black families were matriarchal which, consequently, caused boys in these families to grow up lacking adequate role models for healthy adult masculinity. The wellknown Moynihan report led to three assumptions that influenced research on families for decades: (a) two-parent families, headed by men, are "better" than one-parent families; (b) single Black women are unskilled parents and this notably affects boys; and (c) Black female-headed families are a deviant cultural norm and, therefore, transmit deviancy to children that negatively influences aspirations and social roles (Moynihan, 1965). There continues to be an ongoing debate about the influence of the single-parent family on a child's development but few studies have examined the impact of single parenting on girls (Collins, 1993; Dickerson, 1995).
    Put two and two together. The high deviancy/criminality rate among blacks was already a problem in the 1960s. This was linked to the number of single black mothers at the time. Meaning it is obviously not something which is even remotely new(30 years old) but something which is the result a lot more than 3 decades of whatever you think liberals did to black families.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-23-09 at 05:08 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I feel sorry for you, if you really believe that.
    .....

    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And this is not related to liberal stances on any particular issue but to many different sociological factors. Notice how the black single parent rate is about the same for both blacks and whites even though blacks have higher rates of criminality AND drug use problems. If anything it has much to do with women becoming more and more independent in both the work place and at home. Where before women were almost socially forced to have children and provide care for their families, after the 1940s they saw they could be as big a part of the house when it came to providing material support as men.

    Single Parent Statistics - Average Single Parent Statistics



    Father-only and Mother-only, Single-Parent Family Status of Black Girls and Achievement in Grade Twelve and at Two-years Post High School | Journal of Negro Education, The | Find Articles at BNET



    Put two and two together. The high deviancy/criminality rate among blacks was already a problem in the 1960s. This was linked to the number of single black mothers at the time. Meaning it is obviously not something which is even remotely new(30 years old) but something which is the result a lot more than 3 decades of whatever you think liberals did to black families.
    But, there are far more single black mothers who are totall dependent on government handouts. So, yes, you combine that with the divorce rate and you can lay these issues squarely at the feet of the Libbos...white and black Libbos.

    The Libbos have spent 40 years and $11 trillion dollars convincing the black community that they can't make it on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    .....

    Be as snide as you like, but my heart really goes out to you. If you were here, I would hug you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    you can lay these issues squarely at the feet of the Libbos...white and black Libbos.
    It rained today it must be the libbos fault

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