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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Funny you berate him by claiming he needs to take a statistics class when you have failed miserably to defend the position he is arguing against.
    The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children -- Pawelski et al. 118 (1): 349 -- Pediatrics

    http://www.glhv.org.au/files/childre...BT_parents.pdf

    Done. Next.

    He has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that households without a mother and father have a negative effect on the child. Study after study proves that.
    He has proven that single parent households are at a significant disadvantage to two parent households. He made the claim, unsupported, that this is due to losing one gender or the other. What he didn't take into account was that two parent homes often have double the income as single parent households, and can often provide twice as much time looking after a child as single parent households. Those factors go much further in providing for children than the gender of a parent. Of course, it seem you are just as statistically ignorant if you couldn't gather that much.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 12-23-09 at 03:02 PM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Funny you berate him by claiming he needs to take a statistics class when you have failed miserably to defend the position he is arguing against.

    He has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that households without a mother and father have a negative effect on the child. Study after study proves that.

    You and others like you have failed miserably to provide even one study that proved 2 people of the same gender can make up for either a mother or father absence.

    Until you can do that, stop the flagrant hypocrisy and prove your argument has merit. Remember, it is your side that wants to change the law. I hope you are one of the few who understands this.
    Do you get tired of being wrong? Let's look at some sources provided in this thread, shall we?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058435524

    That is so much research it took 2 posts to contain it all. It points to gay couples being every bit as good of parents as strait couples.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058437123

    We can thank Charles Martell for this one. Let's quote from the link he provides us in the post linked:

    But most studies have found that outcomes for children of gay and lesbian parents are no better -- and no worse -- than for other children, whether the measures involve peer group relationships, self-esteem, behavioral difficulties, academic achievement, or warmth and quality of family relationships.

    Read more: What happens to kids raised by gay parents?

    Hmm, looks like, in point of fact, we have proved that 2 parent households, either male/female, male/male, or female/female are better than single parent households, and of equal quality in child rearing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    textmaster, Martel, or Taylor could probably find a study proving it's better for society if whites sit in the front of the bus and blacks use different drinking fountains.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    textmaster, Martel, or Taylor could probably find a study proving it's better for society if whites sit in the front of the bus and blacks use different drinking fountains.
    I actually don't expect them to be coming back to this thread. The moment the evidence comes out and is too hard to ignore, such people often go running.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Redress is not a muslim invader.
    Note the 's argument after the smilie........

    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I actually don't expect them to be coming back to this thread. The moment the evidence comes out and is too hard to ignore, such people often go running.
    After your "double the income argument", you didn't expect anyone to be back. Hold on a second.....that is brilliant...

    Two incomes...doubles the income of the family! Amazing! Why not commune with three, why not four parents wouldn't the argument be this would quadruple income and therefore benefit the child.

    Pretend all you'd like that gender makes no difference, pretend purposely removing the mother or father is a positive or has no effect. You're all dead on wrong, you couldn't be more wrong. Searching your childhoods, your father could have been replaced? Your mother?

    By this theory, a man could leave his wife but take the three year old daughter with him, never have a woman live in the home again...and it not affect the child as long as his boyfriend moves in with him?

    You're all dreaming, in my opinion your arguments sound agenda driven, and you all seem to think denial is a river in Egypt.

    It ain't.
    Last edited by Charles Martel; 12-23-09 at 04:16 PM.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    textmaster, Martel, or Taylor could probably find a study proving it's better for society if whites sit in the front of the bus and blacks use different drinking fountains.
    I doubt it. Why would we even want to look? If it bothers you that blacks use the same drinking fountain as you do, I suggest you do your own research.
    Last edited by Taylor; 12-23-09 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Finally. This does have real tangible evidence.

    And I will concede based the evidence presented does support the argument that children raised by stable lesbian and gay men couples do not according to these studies have an adverse effect on the child being raised.

    However, I am concerned to how the data was obtained. One professor that was sourced many times over does not interview the couples or the children but instead relies on questionnaires, a very poor research tool.

    . Fifty same-sex partners (25 couples) have completed questionnaires evaluating various individual, marital, parental and social aspects associated to parenthood. Variance analysis of theses aspects have shown the effects of two factors that is, the type of mother (biological/non-biological) and the procreation mode (known/unknown genitor).

    http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cbs/39/2/135/

    One on one interviews would have provided far more reliable data because they can evaluate body language and see reactions to certain questions in real time.

    Another author, again cited extensively relies only on volunteers which is not a proper sampling.

    Existing research on children with lesbian parents is limited by reliance on volunteer or convenience samples.

    Children with lesbian parents: a community study. [Dev Psychol. 2003] - PubMed result

    Another author whose work is cited is itself citing others instead of doing the research themselves making it harder to track.

    http://people.virginia.edu/~cjp/articles/cbrp98.pdf


    In your second study we find this:

    The study had been based on a convenience sample that had been assembled by word of mouth. It was therefore impossible to rule out the possibility that families who participated in the research
    were especially well adjusted.


    So we explore more into the article and once again we find the reliance on questionaires mailed to the households with no supervision when they were filled out, if the child was assisted or if another advocacy group assisted the families.

    Materials were mailed to participating families, with instructions to complete them privately and return them in self-addressed stamped envelopes we provided.


    This is not scientific research and it certainly does not explore the true psychological makeup of the child in these families because if this was out psychotherapy worked, no one would ever visit and therapist.

    Again, I do concede if I based my findings solely on the evidence provided in the article and did not investigate the methods they use or the sampling they took, I would concede the conclusions you drew on earlier but now that I have done the research on the authors I find their sampling flawed based on volunteers no doubt eager to show how normal they are or based on questionnaires which are not sufficient to draw conclusions from since their body language and thought process cannot be explored.

    He has proven that single parent households are at a significant disadvantage to two parent households. He made the claim, unsupported, that this is due to losing one gender or the other. What he didn't take into account was that two parent homes often have double the income as single parent households, and can often provide twice as much time looking after a child as single parent households. Those factors go much further in providing for children than the gender of a parent. Of course, it seem you are just as statistically ignorant if you couldn't gather that much.
    I asked you to support yourself with actual evidence which you did. I'm not denying that. But you would do well to dig into the articles and find out why they have to keep citing other studies to support the very conclusions you agree with and what methods they used to gather the data to support those conclusions.

    You can't be content because someone cited an article that makes the facts infallible. You have to dig to find out what methods they used to draw their conclusions.

    Relying on volunteers and questionnaires for psychological evaluation is flat out lazy science and riddled with inaccuracies. Its the reason psychologists have offices and do not hand out questionnaires and base their findings on what someone wrote down.
    Last edited by texmaster; 12-23-09 at 04:23 PM.
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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    textmaster, Martel, or Taylor could probably find a study proving it's better for society if whites sit in the front of the bus and blacks use different drinking fountains.
    Ah another person laughably trying to relate race to homosexuality.

    Sad. Utterly sad.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children -- Pawelski et al. 118 (1): 349 -- Pediatrics

    http://www.glhv.org.au/files/childre...BT_parents.pdf

    Done. Next.



    He has proven that single parent households are at a significant disadvantage to two parent households. He made the claim, unsupported, that this is due to losing one gender or the other. What he didn't take into account was that two parent homes often have double the income as single parent households, and can often provide twice as much time looking after a child as single parent households. Those factors go much further in providing for children than the gender of a parent. Of course, it seem you are just as statistically ignorant if you couldn't gather that much.
    That makes sense, seeing what the Libbos have done to the black community in this country. They've run the father out of the black family.

    Now it all makes sense why Libbos are so hyped up over gay marriage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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