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Thread: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't wanna. I do a better job of arguing against gay marriage than he does. Maybe I could give him some pointers.
    I'm all ears....err...eyes. Your contribution and advice would be appreciated even if it was needed.

    Ummm...and some advice of my own, your error is to call it gay marriage...there are many many 'gay' people who are married, no one is EVER denied a marriage license because they're 'gay', not ever. Same sex marriage is the issue, you're denied marriage as you're the same gender, not the same orientation. Mind this while you ponder in critical thought concerning ssm.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Actually, this is but one of my links, I've repeatedly overwhelmed the forum with links to children affected by no father in the home. I've been quioting and linking many different sources, CC, something you've failed to do.

    You're wrong, I'm proving it so, you don't like that very much, thus your charge I've nothing. I'm actually dead on correct here and we both know it.
    You have posted irrelevant links, and links that disprove your point.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You have posted irrelevant links, and links that disprove your point.
    Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. My links are relevant and appropriate and destroy the error-prone arguments being submitted in here. Some of them are downright disingenuous.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. My links are relevant and appropriate and destroy the error-prone arguments being submitted in here. Some of them are downright disingenuous.
    How many gay people do you actually know to talk to?

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. My links are relevant and appropriate and destroy the error-prone arguments being submitted in here. Some of them are downright disingenuous.
    No, your links would have been relevant if they compared compared children raised by same sex couples and found them less adjusted than children raised in dual sex couples. You have not shown anything of the sort. You have shown that children raised in single parent homes do less well than those raised with 2 parents, which no one is disagreeing with. You have also shown, with your own links, that children raised by gay couples do just as well as those raised by strait couples, which entirely disproves your point. Yes, that's right, you showed and quoted a source which disproved your very theory.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by windovervocalcords View Post
    How many gay people do you actually know to talk to?
    I don't see where anyone's orientation nor those we source or know is relevant here, please explain.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    I don't see where anyone's orientation nor those we source or know is relevant here, please explain.
    I'm establishing how much first hand information you have about gay people. How many gays or lesbians do you know to talk to? Are you willing to answer the question?

    Facts are facts. I agree with Redress and do not dispute the claim that children are better off with two rather than one parent. The gender of the single parent or two parent family is irrelevant.
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 12-23-09 at 12:49 PM.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Ok...so what?
    The fact that you say this shows that you cannot grasp the difference and why that difference is so important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    And what is human sexuality? And don't both issues you're speaking to above fall under the umbrella of human sexuality? The answer is yes they do in case you're struggling. Furthermore, in the umbrella of human sexuality, orientation and behavoir don't rate but a mere fraction. I'm dead on correct about this, it's clear as day.
    Yes it is under the same umbrella. However, to use an analogy, Geology and Oceanography are both under the earth sciences umbrella, yet they are obviously different. So just because they are under the same umbrella doesn't mean that there are not major differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    So what?
    Refer to my first paragraph in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Of course I could!
    Obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Repulsed isn't the issue, it is in fact irrelevant, what in God's name are you even talking about?
    Actually it is very much relevant. You are trying to argue that homosexuality is a choice. Doing something that repulses you is not a choice. Doing something that repulses you is something that you either HAVE to do or are forced to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    What like...the many homosexual men who have sex with women? Cause, I'm gonna perhaps sort of but not really buy the 'gay' woman being repulsed by having sex with a man argument....but do not tell me 'gay' men are repulsed by a woman if they've been married and especially if they have children. You...obviously ain't repulsed are you. Unless you're going to claim differently....I mean.....you're saying above that I'm repulsed by sex with another man and now apply that to gay people......I think you are correct about the repulsed part even though it's irrelevant but then.....I'm not going to ejaculate or reach orgasm if I'm repulsed now....am I? Or is that normal? I cannot remember one single solitary orgasm in my lifetime whereupon I;ve reached it after first being repulsed! Could you tell me more about this phenom, until then....I'll go ahead and assume no gay man who has fathered a child is "repulsed" by sex with a woman. Please.
    There are varying degrees of being repulsed by something. I think you know this. And yes you could still ejaculate and have an orgasm by having sex with another man. Having an orgasm and ejaculating are biological responses to physical stimuli. As such they are seperate from the kind of sexuality that we are discussing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    I know that, I've argued the exact same. For example, after you father a child, you can act out anyway you'd like, you're not 'gay.' At the very most, you're bisexual however, you ain't gay. Sorry.
    You are again confusing sexual behavior with a sexual orientation. You have not argued the exact same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    The fact that we are all considered mammals.....ruins my appeal to nature?
    Taking things out of context will get you no where. There is a reason that when we write we write in paragraphs. And that is to put things into context.

    [quote=Charles Martel;1058438903]An instinct? Can you prove this? Sir, instincts are survival traits, will you please give me an analogy, what other instinct can you name like homosexuality then if this is your theory. It's not an instinct, sorry, this is another definition you don't have correct.[quote]

    Know the defination and there is no need for any of that.

    Main Entry: 1in·stinct
    Pronunciation: \ˈin-ˌstiŋ(k)t\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Latin instinctus impulse, from instinguere to incite; akin to Latin instigare to instigate
    Date: 15th century
    1 : a natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity <had an instinct for the right word>
    2 a : a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency of an organism to make a complex and specific response to environmental stimuli without involving reason b : behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level
    Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Since, with the exceptions of humans (who are still instinctual) animals cannot reason it stands to reason that they only go by instincts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    I mean...You tell me an appeal to nature isn't applicable and then you make one yourself? Interesting. And, can you show me where homosexual behavior in any mammal kingdom, family, or subset affects that animal community in the slightest. Do these homosexual mammals merely behave in that manner or are they repulsed by natural sexual behavior, do they not reproduce as many human 'gays' don't reproduce? Cause if they do, what you've seen is bisexuality in some animals, akin to a female dog mounting another, there could be numerous reasons for it.
    I was not the one that said an appeal to nature isn't applicable. I did say that your appeal to nature was false though.

    Like what other reasons? Remember, animals do not reason. If they could then we would not be the only dominate race on this planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    The research shows just as good AND as bad. Meaning the lack of either a male or femal role model in the home is the EXACT same. Correct? You're claiming your relationships are all the same, it'll be the same divorce rate, same abuse rates, same domestic violence rates...correct? And you'll have the exact same "just as bads" as well. And the overwhelming evidence on the lack of a father in the home you continue to seny as if denial were a river in Egypt Sir, the lack of a father...or mother has the EXACT same affect on children. Just because there are two parents doesn't make it equal, you are purposefully removing the female or male from the home and that is NEVER or can NEVER be the equal of a nuclear family where the male father and female mother live with their offspring, it is what we all should strive to attain, it's what EVERY MAMMAL in your example strives to attain as well. Your argument here Sir, is dead wrong and utter poppycock, I've destroyed it several times over responding to other arguments as wrong as yours.
    Incorrect. You are trying to say that a family must have both a male and a female couple for the child to turn out normal. Using studies that show single parent families. This has been proven false. You keep focusing on the word "father" in your posts. Problem with this is that when raising a kid the most important factors in raising that kids is..

    1: Money.
    2: Stability.
    3: Relationship with the parents.

    Money: Obviously the more money you have the better you will be able to meet any of the needs that the child needs. The less money you have the less you will be able to meet their needs.

    Stability: If the child is in a family where the parents are always fighting and subsequently get a divorce that is not stability and will suffer emotionally. Because of this they will not have as good of a self esteem. However if the parents are not fighting and are living happily together the child will be more happy and self-confident.

    Relationship with parents: If the relationship is good with both parents this also promotes happiness and self confidence. If the relationship is bad..well guess what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    What in the world? If they have a good self image, that's the guarantee of success? Why is it the lack of a father in the home then is such a drain on self image, can you explain?
    It's not the lack of a father, its the lack of a second parental figure. A child raised in a household where there is no mother suffers the same as a child raised in a household without a father. This shows that the sex of the parents has nothing to do with what is happening to the child. A single parent household has half the income, half the stability, and half the emotional support that a two parent household has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Uhhh...not only how they do academically, whether they will use drugs, become involved in crime, behave irrationally, suffer from mental disease, cycle in poverty, the fatherless home is the #1 common denominator for men in prison, did you know that?
    You are again associating a study with homosexuality when that study has nothing what so ever to do with homosexuality. That study has everything to do with the above list that I have just given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Means it's irrelevant. Any homosexual orientation, behavior, act of circus flying skill whatever...means absolutely nothing. It is an behavioral act, it doesn't contribute to anything save for the joy of those engaged. Irrelevant to mankind, irrelevant to the survival of ANY species. The lack of heterosexuality of course.....we aren't having this conversation...correct?
    You're right, we're not having this conversation. Because you base your whole argument on a study which has nothing to do with homosexuals. As the author of such a study basically said in an article that you yourself provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    What utter nonsense. And my research has shown the fallacy of your arguments. There are no studies that research gay parents to straight parents. Many gay parents become parents after one of them has come out of another marriage or relationship. Where the child is already many times grown, where the child still has a relationship to the parent who isn't gay.
    There may be no studies that research gay parents to straight parents but there are studies that research kids raised in homosexual homes vs heterosexual homes. The studies show no difference in how the kids turned out.

    And your arguements are based off of study that had nothing to do with homosexual two parent homes. It had everything to do with single parent homes period.

    Weather the parents came out when the child was older or not doesn't matter. As evidenced by one of your own articles. Which had a parent that came out while the kid was only 6 years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    The research shows that if you remove the male or female....which ssm does on purpose..it affects the child adversely. Now, I'm sorry if the facts shoot your arguments down like a world war one Spad but hey....great news...the smoldering wreckage of what remains of your argument can be found over the horizon.
    No what the research shows is that single parent homes are not very good for children. Misrepresenting a scientific study that has nothing to do with the sex of the parents who leaves is disingenous.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, your links would have been relevant if they compared compared children raised by same sex couples and found them less adjusted than children raised in dual sex couples.
    There are no comparison studies and as homosexuals do not reproduce. 'Gay' parents either conceived this child in a heterosexual relationship(in most cases this is true), or are the step parent. And we need not compare, the most adjusted, the best way we now how to raise children..is within marriage where two people reproduce and care and are involved with their children. Any other situation be it step parent, single parent, gay parent, isn't the best foot forward, sorry, it's just not.

    You have not shown anything of the sort. You have shown that children raised in single parent homes do less well than those raised with 2 parents, which no one is disagreeing with.
    I've shown what happens when you remove the male from the home. And it's not pretty. Your arguments would like to purposefully remove the male from the home.....replace with a female...and pretend it's the same. It's not. Sorry.

    You have also shown, with your own links, that children raised by gay couples do just as well as those raised by strait couples, which entirely disproves your point. Yes, that's right, you showed and quoted a source which disproved your very theory.
    That's right and EVERYONE pay attention...this is the crux, children are raised just as well...and just as bad. The step parent higher risk as far as abuse goes.....carries to 'gay' families as well, correct? The atrocity of not having a male father in the home......comes with equal risk......the error of not having a female mother in the home...comes with equal risks, yes...yes...yes.

    Exactly right....'gay' families situations are the same, the abuse, the emotional neglect, the questions as to why one's natural parents aren't still together, many go looking for a lost or abandoned parent, many purposefully avoid that parent for what may be obvious reasons, yes....all the risks involved that effect heterosexual families and lead to undue crime, withering abuse stats, sexual abuses, and emotional challenges. And all of the rules and stats I've linked to very much apply to 'gay' couples as well....right? Their raised just as stable...and just as unstable...correct.

    Unless you're going to argue these relationships are somehomw 'different?' That the stats showing no male in the home don't apply. That somehow...two females can father a boy, for example. You...wouldn't be trying to argue that would you?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: DC City Council votes to legalize gay marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    There are no comparison studies and as homosexuals do not reproduce. 'Gay' parents either conceived this child in a heterosexual relationship(in most cases this is true), or are the step parent. And we need not compare, the most adjusted, the best way we now how to raise children..is within marriage where two people reproduce and care and are involved with their children. Any other situation be it step parent, single parent, gay parent, isn't the best foot forward, sorry, it's just not.



    I've shown what happens when you remove the male from the home. And it's not pretty. Your arguments would like to purposefully remove the male from the home.....replace with a female...and pretend it's the same. It's not. Sorry.



    That's right and EVERYONE pay attention...this is the crux, children are raised just as well...and just as bad. The step parent higher risk as far as abuse goes.....carries to 'gay' families as well, correct? The atrocity of not having a male father in the home......comes with equal risk......the error of not having a female mother in the home...comes with equal risks, yes...yes...yes.

    Exactly right....'gay' families situations are the same, the abuse, the emotional neglect, the questions as to why one's natural parents aren't still together, many go looking for a lost or abandoned parent, many purposefully avoid that parent for what may be obvious reasons, yes....all the risks involved that effect heterosexual families and lead to undue crime, withering abuse stats, sexual abuses, and emotional challenges. And all of the rules and stats I've linked to very much apply to 'gay' couples as well....right? Their raised just as stable...and just as unstable...correct.

    Unless you're going to argue these relationships are somehomw 'different?' That the stats showing no male in the home don't apply. That somehow...two females can father a boy, for example. You...wouldn't be trying to argue that would you?
    Gay parents just as often conceive of their children through AI.

    You never answered my question. How many gay families do you know? How many gay parents have you talked to?
    Last edited by windovervocalcords; 12-23-09 at 01:10 PM.

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