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Thread: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

  1. #81
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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The earth WAS going through a cyclical warming.... now its going through a cyclical cooling, resulting in growing ice at the poles.
    yet alot of research i do points to the fact the average global temp. has risen quite recently

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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    your statement is flawed, one cannot impose equality without having power over others.
    and they just used the label communism to justify dictatorships.


    And here in lies the rub. See, it is my contention that in order to bring about this Global Marxism, we had to have a massive effort brought by a world body, the UN springs to mind. Then, there had to be something that Global Marxists found could be implemented as currency, strong enough to redistribute entire nations wealth from the wealthy, to the poorer countries without upsetting the production of goods and services in these countries.

    Carbon begins to be demonized. Think about it. Carbon, while only contributing a miniscule portion of the atmospheres greenhouse gases, water vapor being the lion share, it is carbon that is devised into a commodity ready to be bought and sold on the world exchange. This is the redistribution mechanism.

    Now all that would be left is for someone prominent to start bellowing world wide, with the cooperation of certain scientists that rely on grant money, to devise how it is carbon that is destructing the globe, and that a body like the UN should be in control of overseeing nation state economies, and regulation of emission of said pollutant, enter Al Gore. Never mind, that the debate is not over, it was attempted to be squashed from the start. And that imposing of say a carbon tax will do absolutely NOTHING to curb emissions, it just imposes tax, which turns our exhaling into a taxable source, real money. Thereby giving government control over us at an unprecedented rate, and allows them to tax the air we breath.

    This is simplistic but you get the gist.


    j-mac
    Last edited by j-mac; 12-16-09 at 10:24 AM.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And here in lies the rub. See, it is my contention that in order to bring about this Global Marxism, we had to have a massive effort brought by a world body, the UN springs to mind. Then, there had to be something that Global Marxists found could be implemented as currency, strong enough to redistribute entire nations wealth from the wealthy, to the poorer countries without upsetting the production of goods and services in these countries.

    Carbon begins to be demonized. Think about it. Carbon, while only contributing a miniscule portion of the atmospheres greenhouse gases, water vapor being the lion share, it is carbon that is devised into a commodity ready to be bought and sold on the world exchange. This is the redistribution mechanism.

    Now all that would be left is for someone prominent to start bellowing world wide, with the cooperation of certain scientists that rely on grant money, to devise how it is carbon that is destructing the globe, and that a body like the UN should be in control of overseeing nation state economies, and regulation of emission of said pollutant, enter Al Gore. Never mind, that the debate is not over, it was attempted to be squashed from the start. And that imposing of say a carbon tax will do absolutely NOTHING to curb emissions, it just imposes tax, which turns our exhaling into a taxable source, real money. Thereby giving government control over us at an unprecedented rate, and allows them to tax the air we breath.

    This is simplistic but you get the gist.


    j-mac
    that's a fair point, just a note though, rather than global marxism, i think it would be better to have it as global egalitarianism, as that better fits the idea, but the problem with it is, if they wait for a unanimous decision on global warming, if it proves that it is indeed a threat, then it may be to late, hence the carbon tax, as an incentive to try and reduce the amount of something that may cause a problem in the future, it seems to me that global warming is akin to standing in front of a charging elephant whilst holding a large bore elephant gun, as there is a 50/50 chance the elephant may either trample you or miss you, now you can wait and see what happens, or you can fire the gun, thus stopping the elephant, whether it would've trampled you or not, but, as it is such a big gun, shattering your scapula in the process, which may or may not cause long term problems anyway, as the bone may not heal.

    and if i missed your point entirely i do apologise, as it's 1:30am here and i just can't sleep due to excessive temperatures (just summer, not GW)

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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    that's a fair point, just a note though, rather than global marxism, i think it would be better to have it as global egalitarianism, as that better fits the idea, but the problem with it is, if they wait for a unanimous decision on global warming, if it proves that it is indeed a threat, then it may be to late, hence the carbon tax, as an incentive to try and reduce the amount of something that may cause a problem in the future, it seems to me that global warming is akin to standing in front of a charging elephant whilst holding a large bore elephant gun, as there is a 50/50 chance the elephant may either trample you or miss you, now you can wait and see what happens, or you can fire the gun, thus stopping the elephant, whether it would've trampled you or not, but, as it is such a big gun, shattering your scapula in the process, which may or may not cause long term problems anyway, as the bone may not heal.

    and if i missed your point entirely i do apologise, as it's 1:30am here and i just can't sleep due to excessive temperatures (just summer, not GW)

    No worries Spud, but if I may lets go back to your analogy of the Elephant, and the hunter if we can. If the Elephant is boring down on you as you stand firm, static in the same place knowing that the Elephant will trample you if you miss, then I would say yes, you must shoot. But what happens if you take a step to the side, per se, and the Elephant misses you giving you the time to set up a better position, and gather more information, thus making your shot not in panic but more calculated, and informed?

    We can not afford to keep doing these things in haste, using manipulated data, and relying solely on the word of those with a political agenda. With figures derived to fit a conclusion before the data was compiled can we? Is that really science?


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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No worries Spud, but if I may lets go back to your analogy of the Elephant, and the hunter if we can. If the Elephant is boring down on you as you stand firm, static in the same place knowing that the Elephant will trample you if you miss, then I would say yes, you must shoot. But what happens if you take a step to the side, per se, and the Elephant misses you giving you the time to set up a better position, and gather more information, thus making your shot not in panic but more calculated, and informed?

    We can not afford to keep doing these things in haste, using manipulated data, and relying solely on the word of those with a political agenda. With figures derived to fit a conclusion before the data was compiled can we? Is that really science?


    j-mac
    but, on the same note, poliical agendas can go both ways, with figures being manipulated to show the opposite, to fit a conclusion so as to argue another set of figures, seems the only way to solve the debate would be unbiased research, which would be impossible as funding must come from somewhere, and this could just apply enough pressure to tip the finding either way.
    and the political alignment stigma that goes with it also skews things more, as if you agree with it, your a leftie, and if you disagree, a rightie.

    you make a good point, we do need more data, but, if you wait too long getting the data, it could be too late, if the worse is proved.
    side stepping is only a temporary solution, and even if more data is gathered, it may not clear the water, i think a carbon tax may be a bit to far, and driven by greed, as the tax has to be paid to someone, but it can't hurt to lower pollution anyway, could make the next olympics in china a bit more bearable to foreign athletes

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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    but, on the same note, poliical agendas can go both ways, with figures being manipulated to show the opposite, to fit a conclusion so as to argue another set of figures, seems the only way to solve the debate would be unbiased research, which would be impossible as funding must come from somewhere, and this could just apply enough pressure to tip the finding either way.
    and the political alignment stigma that goes with it also skews things more, as if you agree with it, your a leftie, and if you disagree, a rightie.

    you make a good point, we do need more data, but, if you wait too long getting the data, it could be too late, if the worse is proved.
    side stepping is only a temporary solution, and even if more data is gathered, it may not clear the water, i think a carbon tax may be a bit to far, and driven by greed, as the tax has to be paid to someone, but it can't hurt to lower pollution anyway, could make the next olympics in china a bit more bearable to foreign athletes

    Lowering pollution, and being good stewards of our planet is not a bad thing. As a conservative I am all for conservation. But I am also for sound science. What I see in this debate is one side bullying the other into a forced conclusion about the causes of a problem, perceived or real.

    The very moment they introduced a political agenda into the debate, then the credibility was lost. To think that those in favor of AGW, were actively pursuing an agenda of personal destruction of any scientists that disagreed with their conclusion should be enough to start over.


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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    but, on the same note, poliical agendas can go both ways, with figures being manipulated to show the opposite, to fit a conclusion so as to argue another set of figures, seems the only way to solve the debate would be unbiased research, which would be impossible as funding must come from somewhere, and this could just apply enough pressure to tip the finding either way.
    and the political alignment stigma that goes with it also skews things more, as if you agree with it, your a leftie, and if you disagree, a rightie.

    you make a good point, we do need more data, but, if you wait too long getting the data, it could be too late, if the worse is proved.
    side stepping is only a temporary solution, and even if more data is gathered, it may not clear the water, i think a carbon tax may be a bit to far, and driven by greed, as the tax has to be paid to someone, but it can't hurt to lower pollution anyway, could make the next olympics in china a bit more bearable to foreign athletes
    Except that the "worst" AGW predictions have already been disproved, hence the reason the continued doom and gloom prediction still coming from the failed prognosticators falls on rightly skeptical ears and eyes.

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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    i think this graph proves global warming

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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i think this graph proves global warming

    "Church of the flying spaghetti monster" ???? Really? So you agree that the debate is really a religion, and not science?


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    Re: Copenhagen climate summit negotiations 'suspended'

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i think this graph proves global warming
    If I could have your attention, you'll see this chart explains everything.


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