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Thread: With Eye to 2010 Election, Dems Prepare to Raise U.S. Borrowing Limit by Nearly $2T

  1. #31
    Advisor TheHat's Avatar
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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Well they have to pay off their facist interest groups. Just sayin.

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Now you are resulting to personal attacks because I dare debunk a right wing talking point yet again? Pathetic.

    How about for once trying to debunk my comments? You cant, because you know I am right.
    who's debunking

    i was in complete agreement with you, petey

    bush was a loser

    and you are 100% APT in comparing obama to w-stands-for-what's-his-name

    keep it up

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    i woulda thought you might perhaps aspire instead for obama to be a SUCCESSFUL president
    But...yer thinking without having a clue as to what a successful President really is. Don't you see that?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    who's debunking

    i was in complete agreement with you, petey

    bush was a loser

    and you are 100% APT in comparing obama to w-stands-for-what's-his-name

    keep it up
    W now stands for wtf were you smoking on election day 2008?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    You have to understand that both parties in congress are just the face of industry at this point, on many levels. If it wasn't the Dems doing this it would be the GOP and the entire debate would be coming from the opposite angle. The bankers control the economy and in turn control a great deal of congress.

    If you want to be angry, you should be angry at the secrecy surrounding the Federal Reserve and its undemocratic opaqueness in a time of financial crisis. It's absorbing YOUR money and telling you nothing about it.

    I'm almost fully convinced at this time that bipartisan forces in congress are mutually engaged in the deliberate self-destruction of the current U.S. financial system. It's just a shame that most people are too busy towing partisan lines to take a hard look at what's going on.
    Well then you should show examples of the Republicans raising the debt ceiling. Then we can consider what was driving any such moves. Otherwise, we need to deal with the Congress we have.

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
    Otherwise, we need to deal with the Congress we have.
    a not trivial, indeed, fundamental correction:

    EITHER WAY, we have to deal with the congress we have

    and THAT's the point

    well, it's not really THE point

    THE point is---

    1. ONE POINT EIGHT TRILLION!

    2. MORE!

  7. #37
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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    What's funny is how "centrists, " jump immediately to claim that Obama's record deficits in his first year are due to the economic downturn, but Bush's was due to poor management. They always seem to forget about 9/11 and how much extra money was spent righting the nation and the economy following it.

    1. Wall Street was devasted.
    2. The airline industry was devasted.
    3. The entire US economy came to a standstill.
    4. A massive new department was added, Homeland Security.
    5. Billions of dollars were spent increasing our security technology.


    At the rate Obama is going, he'll have to raise the debt limit 10 times in the four years he'll be in office.

    You are right about the pathetic and partisan attacks. Got a mirror handy?
    Except that you ignore most of that was done in one or two years. Bush's deficits occurred every year including boom years. I realize you have a problem with simple facts, but this is pretty ridiculous. Bush stimulus spending during a recession is acceptable as it's a recession. Bush deficit spending during expansionary years is completely unacceptable. If you can't cut down your spending when the economy is booming, how the hell are you going to get ever pay down the debt?

    Where is Ireimon. You need a good financial clock cleaning.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
    Well then you should show examples of the Republicans raising the debt ceiling. Then we can consider what was driving any such moves. Otherwise, we need to deal with the Congress we have.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...s/hist07z3.xls
    http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/105193.pdf

    That's a fair number of Republican debt limit increases.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except that you ignore most of that was done in one or two years. Bush's deficits occurred every year including boom years. I realize you have a problem with simple facts, but this is pretty ridiculous. Bush stimulus spending during a recession is acceptable as it's a recession. Bush deficit spending during expansionary years is completely unacceptable. If you can't cut down your spending when the economy is booming, how the hell are you going to get ever pay down the debt?

    Where is Ireimon. You need a good financial clock cleaning.
    The only time there was a surplus, was when the deficit included funds stolen from Social Security, and for only a year, maybe two at the end of Clinton's watch. To get there, he couldn't cut down spending on entitlements so he had to cut intelligence and military. When 9/11 happened, Bush needed money to fight the wars, and he needed money to rebuild intelligence and the military. He still kept the deficit numbers (still including funds stolen from Social Security - I hate how they do that) to less that $300 billion except his last year when dealing with the economy.

    That kind of deficit is in line with deficit's run by Reagan, Bush Sr. etc. That is the kind of deficit you can grow your way out of.

    Somehow Obama has taken it to a $1.7 trillion deficit!! The projections are above a trillion for the rest of his presidency as well. It doesn't even include the health care bill, which doesn't generate deficit for 5 years or so.

    Obama's spending in a recession is totally unacceptable.

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    Re: Dems To Raise Debt Ceiling by 1.8 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The only time there was a surplus, was when the deficit included funds stolen from Social Security, and for only a year, maybe two at the end of Clinton's watch.
    Sorta of. There was never a surplus because off balanced sheet financing like transfer payments to the postal service were never booked. Government accounting at the federal level is in some ways, very Enron like.

    What Clinton did do well with the deficit, aside from cutting it down to negligible levels was retire expensive Reagan era debt with cheap Clinton era debt. Essentially refinancing. That alone likely saved us hundreds of billions in debt servicing. What Bush should have done is continued that, replacing expensive 30 year and 15 year securities with really low paying securities.

    To get there, he couldn't cut down spending on entitlements so he had to cut intelligence and military
    Which made sense at the time as the US military was geared towards fighting an enemy that no longer existed. Why maintain a massive force built around destroying a Soviet-Warsaw pact force that no longer existed?

    When 9/11 happened, Bush needed money to fight the wars, and he needed money to rebuild intelligence and the military. He still kept the deficit numbers (still including funds stolen from Social Security - I hate how they do that) to less that $300 billion except his last year when dealing with the economy.
    Iraq was unnecessary war that made up the bulk of the additional costs. Take that out and we would have been in a far better financial picture.

    That kind of deficit is in line with deficit's run by Reagan, Bush Sr. etc. That is the kind of deficit you can grow your way out of.
    Except we've never been able to do that. The only time we got close to getting a balanced budget was with significant cuts. You can't just grow yourself out of a deficit. Furthermore, Congress will constantly spend money as the economy grows. We saw domestic spending explode as well under the all GOP years during boom years. Congress will feed itself and continue deficits.

    Somehow Obama has taken it to a $1.7 trillion deficit!!
    Significant amounts which came over from the past fiscal year. People tend to ignore this.

    The projections are above a trillion for the rest of his presidency as well. It doesn't even include the health care bill, which doesn't generate deficit for 5 years or so.
    Eh. If there's one thing I agree with TD on, CBO projections are total crap. The same people said Clinton would have a trillion dollar surplus holding all things constant in 10 years. Yeah. Hello? CBO? Heard of something called "REALITY?"

    Obama's spending in a recession is totally unacceptable.
    Not really. What is unacceptable is the timeliness of spending.

    Deficit spending during recessions is acceptable.
    Deficit spending during expansions is never.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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