Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 36

Thread: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

  1. #11
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Wow...communism really sucks.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #12
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Confucianism certainly didn't start out as a religion, but then neither did Christianity. The western concept of religion is based primarily on Christianity. Eastern concepts of religion are different. Confucius was at one point deified and statues erected in temples in China. He had followers and disciples much as Jesus is said to have had. For anyone interested in a brief bit of information on Conficianism and it's relation to religion vs culture (pretty much the same thing in many cultures), I'll post a couple of links.

    http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religio...ill%20Hazy.pdf

    The most important point, especially in regard to Chinese religions, is to have a culture-neutral definition. Yet it is still not unusual to find statements to the effect that "while Confucianism may contain religious dimensions, it is not a religion in the Western (or usual) sense of the word." This, obviously, will not do. With the proviso that we need not think of any single definition as universally appropriate, but rather as a provisional way of shedding light on one or more aspects of the multi-dimensional set of phenomena we call "religious," I will note that many scholars have found Frederick Streng's definition of religion to be especially suitable to Chinese religions. Streng said that religion is "a means to ultimate transformation," where "ultimate" can be understood in whatever terms are appropriate to the tradition.12 This is, therefore, a formal, culture-neutral definition. In the case of Confucianism, the goal of Sagehood is the endpoint of that transformation, and Heaven symbolizes the ultimacy that makes it religious. "Transformation" not only characterizes the process by which human beings become Sages (or fully humane, ren 仁); it is also a characteristic of the Sage, who "transforms where he passes" (Mencius 7A.13).13 The Sage, through his de 德 or "moral power," transforms others and society itself. So by this definition -- one that focuses on what we might call the "spirituality" of the Confucian tradition -- it is not difficult to justify referring to Confucianism as a religious tradition.14
    understanding Chinese popular (or local) religion.15 The distinction hinges on the social setting of the practices in question: institutional religion is practiced in a specifically religious social setting, such as a temple or monastery operated by clergy (priests or monks); diffused religion is practiced in a "secular" social setting: one that is not specifically religious, such as the family, community, or state. The case of local community temples is somewhat ambiguous, as Daoist priests usually conduct formal rituals in them, such as the community jiao 醮 ritual, or specific rituals requested and paid for by families or individuals. But these temples are operated by the local, non-clerical community, and so would primarily fall into the "diffused" category. The question for us then becomes, what is the social setting of Confucian practice? What, indeed, are the varieties of Confucian practice? It is customary to identify Confucian practice on the levels of the individual, the family, and the state (the last primarily in imperial times). On the level of the individual there is the work of self-cultivation (gongfu 功夫), such as study, self-reflection, and (for some, especially after the Song dynasty) meditation in the form of "quiet-sitting" (jingzuo 靜坐). In the family and clan, or lineage, there is filial behavior and ancestor worship; these, of course, are practiced as well by people who do not self-identify as Confucians. On the state level, before 1911 there were the imperial rituals at the Confucian temple, which fell into the "middle" category of state sacrifices. The "great" sacrifices were those to Heaven and Earth, which are often loosely put under the Confucian umbrella, although that usage needs to be defended. Corresponding to practice at the level of the community in popular religion is the private Confucian school or academy -- again, especially after the Song. Since Confucianism is a tradition for literati (or, today, intellectuals), the academy is the natural social setting for it. The Confucian academies that flourished from the Song through the Qing periods in China -- not to mention those in Korea and those few that are beginning to reappear in the PRC -- were central to the self-identification of avowed Confucians. In addition to being places of learning -- and Confucian learning, of course, is learning to be a Sage, which, as noted above, is a religious goal -- there were also daily ritual observances, including prayers to Confucius and other sages and worthies.
    An Introduction to Confucianism
    Li (social propriety) is the greatest principle of living. When society lives by li it moves smoothly. Confucius saw the embodiment of this society in the idealized form of feudalistic government, illustrated by the Five Relationships: kindness in the father, filial piety in the son; gentility in the eldest brother, humility and respect in the younger; righteousness behavior in the husband, obedience in the wife; humane consideration in elders, deference in juniors; benevolence in rulers, loyalty in ministers and subjects. Li may also refer to the "middle way" in all things.
    Just as li is the outward expression of the superior man, jen (goodness, humaneness, love) is the inner ideal. Confucius taught that men should love one another and practice respect and courtesy. If li and jen were operative in a person, the end product would be the Confucian goal: the superior man. Confucius believed in the natural goodness or at least the natural perfectibility of man. He stressed government by virtue (Te) and the arts of peace (Wen). Since filial piety is the root of all virtue this concern for parental respect is seen in the veneration of age and ancestor worship. Confucius was a pragmatic man who thought one should respect the spirits but keep them at a distance.
    Confucius regarded himself as a transmitter, not the originator, of social values and wisdom. Although Confucianism does not claim revelatory scriptures, the Five Classics and the Four Books are regarded as the touch-stone of Confucian conduct and wisdom. Mencius and Hsun Tzu were the great expositors of Confucius in the fourth and third centuries B.C. and did much to popularize and spread his teachings. During the Han Dynasty there developed a cult of Confucius himself. By the sixth century A.D. every prefecture in China had a temple to honor Confucius.
    The Confucian cult was checked in 1503 when the images of Confucius were ordered removed from the temples and replaced with wooden tablets inscribed with his teachings. All titles were removed and he was spoken of simply as "Master Kung, the perfect teacher of antiquity." In 1906 there was an attempt to revive the Confucian cult but with the birth of the People's Republic of China all sacrifices to Confucius and other religious observances were officially abandoned.

  3. #13
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,042

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Confucianism certainly didn't start out as a religion, but then neither did Christianity. The western concept of religion is based primarily on Christianity. Eastern concepts of religion are different. Confucius was at one point deified and statues erected in temples in China. He had followers and disciples much as Jesus is said to have had. For anyone interested in a brief bit of information on Conficianism and it's relation to religion vs culture (pretty much the same thing in many cultures), I'll post a couple of links.

    http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religio...ill%20Hazy.pdf

    An Introduction to Confucianism
    It is not a religion. Stop trying to justify your ridiculous misconception.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    06-29-10 @ 11:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,801

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Well it would seem the Godless among us who claim to be Christians but believe it's okay to kill babies
    The Bible says it is:

    "...do not spare them, put to death men, women, children, infants..." 1 Samuel 15:3

    "Any child that curses his father or mother shall be put to death" - OT

    Hosea 13:16 (NLT) - "The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."

    If you were talking about human embryos/fetuses, then you'll need to research some science if you want to appear credible - the same goes with PETA and the "meat is murder" crowd, just to be fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    and the Association of Communist Lovers United (ACLU) have something to rejoice about.
    The ACLU believes that Muslims should have the right to wear veils on IDs, and that Rev. Fred Phelps has the right to protest soldiers' funerals in the name of God, so they're the polar opposite of commies.

    (Try using some critical thought instead of repeating what Wingnutdaily tells you.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    By the way Christianity is at risk here but it won't be made clear to many for a while yet, but it comes with the territory when Socialism/Marxism takes root.
    One less cult to worry about then. Hope the commies take out Islam next. I guess pinkos are actually good for something (not that there much different than these cults).

    You know, your cult wouldn't even be at risk if it didn't try to spread its idiocy into commie lands, so the fault is theirs for trying to recruit members of the commie cult into joining another cult which has proven itself just as destructive throughout history (and still is in many areas of the world).

  5. #15
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,872
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    i am a communist and i oppose this, it's all thanks to marx's quote of "religion is the opiate of the people" and this is another reason i believe marx to be outdated


    and to the old argument i feel i should throw in "CHINA ISN'T COMMUNIST"
    Last edited by spud_meister; 12-11-09 at 08:04 AM.

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the land of steers and queers
    Last Seen
    06-03-10 @ 12:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,563

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    the Godless... who claim to be Christians
    I thought Christians believed in God.

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the land of steers and queers
    Last Seen
    06-03-10 @ 12:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,563

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    the Association of Communist Lovers United (ACLU) have something to rejoice about.
    The ACLU despises civil authority over religion.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    In the land of steers and queers
    Last Seen
    06-03-10 @ 12:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,563

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i am a communist and i oppose this, it's all thanks to marx's quote of "religion is the opiate of the people" and this is another reason i believe marx to be outdated


    and to the old argument i feel i should throw in "CHINA ISN'T COMMUNIST"
    Some say Capitalism and Communism are a perfect match for each other.

  9. #19
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    The Bible says it is:

    "...do not spare them, put to death men, women, children, infants..." 1 Samuel 15:3

    You distort the Bible.


    "Any child that curses his father or mother shall be put to death"

    Leviticus 20:9 is in the Old Testament, and although it is there for our learning, and to underscore the seriousness of the 5th commandment, it is not a practice. Another distortion to cast dispersion on Christianity no doubt.


    Hosea 13:16 (NLT) - "The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."

    Again speaking of the Old Testament as if it were applicable today show a severe lack of understanding in terms of using scripture, maybe you should not attempt that?

    In any case a good summary of what you are distorting here is found surprisingly on yahoo answers....It says:

    Mens' own actions lead to tragedies like those predicted against Samaria, or Northern Isreal. The Prophet is trying to get the people to repent and change. If they do, the prediction will not happen. A similar story is found in Jonah. Jonah is told to go and tell Ninevah they are doomed. The people repent and are spared. Jonah is even upset because of God's mercy.

    Today the real tragedy about abortion is not so much the loss of a life as it is people call good evil and evil good. No one is supposed to feel guilt or remorse or seek forgiveness.

    Question about Hosea 13:16? - Yahoo! Answers
    If you were talking about human embryos/fetuses, then you'll need to research some science if you want to appear credible - the same goes with PETA and the "meat is murder" crowd, just to be fair.

    Suppose you explain to me what scientific value abortion had at its inception as fiat law? No sir you offer distortions, and extoll others to bone up on topics? That is rich.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #20
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Fast-growing Christian churches crushed in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    Some say Capitalism and Communism are a perfect match for each other.

    Only those who understand neither.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •