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Virginia Veteran Wins Battle to Keep His Flagpole in Yard

Nothing. I have something against sticking a flag pole on your property without seeking permission beforehand.

Do you legally own his property or does he own it?
 
And that is my problem with any HOA. I would never move into a neighborhood where my neighbors could decide what and what I cannot put in my own yard. After all, if I buy a place, I want it to be MY property, not some communal ownership which, if you look at the face of it, is a form of Communism.
Exactly, my house, my rules. If some jackass wants to dictate the terms of my property they can pay my mortgage, otherwise they can go take a leap off a high cliff.
 
Do you legally own his property or does he own it?

The guy bought the house with the agreement that he would follow HOA rules. It was his choice to enter into that contract.

While I don't agree with HOA, if you buy a house with an HOA, you are well aware of what you can and cannot do and you can choose not to buy the house.

Personally I do not like HOA and I am very glad the place I am living at does not have one.
 
Exactly, my house, my rules. If some jackass wants to dictate the terms of my property they can pay my mortgage, otherwise they can go take a leap off a high cliff.

Then don't buy the house with an HOA agreement. It is simple as that.
 
A person buying a house should be allowed to not join the HOA if he desires. The seller should not be penalized or otherwise forced by the HOA to force the buyer into joining.

in other words, the HOA membership for communities of single family houses, not condos or townhouses, should be on a voluntary basis with any member able to withdraw without penalty.

Come on, people, what the hell has happened to America when your neighbors can control the color you paint your house, your gardening choices, and your basketball backboard, let alone you flag pole!

That's why I've always been opposed to property restrictions and to some extent, zoning laws.

I was under contract to buy a piece of property last year. Half way through the process, I found out that there were restriction on half the stuff I wanted to do with the property, so I bailed on the contract. It was a big ass mess.

HOA's should be made illegal.
 
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Do you legally own his property or does he own it?

Irrelevant. He wasn't forced to move into that neighborhood or sign any HOA contracts. He chose to. And got mad when he was told he couldn't do whatever he wanted simply because he's a veteran. I think I'll make it this the politically correct 'military card'. Where anybody who's ever served in the military is supposed to break contracts or simply get out of agreements simply because they've served. And their opinion and wishes are supposed to be unquestionable. Its 'Americas! **** YEAH's version of the race card.
 
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Irrelevant. He wasn't forced to move into that neighborhood or sign any HOA contracts. He chose to. And got mad when he was told he couldn't do whatever he wanted simply because he's a veteran. I think I'll make it this the politically correct 'military card'. Where anybody who's ever served in the military is supposed to break contracts or simply get out of agreements simply because they've served. And their opinion and wishes are supposed to be unquestionable. Its 'Americas! **** YEAH's version of the race card.

What if he refused to sign the HOA? Could he have moved into the neighborhood anyways?

Dont get me wrong, I understand the purpose of HOAs, but is a flag pole really a big issue in a neighborhood? I mean seriously? I can understand standards for trashy yards, and not having 10 cars piled up on your lawn like a redneck, but does flying the American flag in an American neighborhood really affect property values?
 
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I disagree with you, but I give you kudos for putting together a well thought out explanation of your position. Damn it, if you keep this up, I won't be able to joke about your short posts any more. :mrgreen:
Thanks, but I'm not sure what there is to disagree on. This isn't about whether you like HOAs or not. I don't particularly care for them, but we wanted to live in this neighborhood. I thought our convenants chairman was basically a Nazi, but I was in charge of landscaping and didn't have any say in how he did his job.

If the convenants, of the HOA in question, stated no free-standing flagpoles allowed, then the 90 year old man was breaking the rules. It wouldn't matter if George Washington had the pole there. The HOA has no choice but to enforce the rule until the rule is changed. It's really quite simple. I'm sorry.
 
What if he refused to sign the HOA? Could he have moved into the neighborhood anyways?
No, he could not and the home sale would not have gone through.
 
What if he refused to sign the HOA? Could he have moved into the neighborhood anyways?

Dont get me wrong, I understand the purpose of HOAs, but is a flag pole really a big issue in a neighborhood? I mean seriously? I can understand standards for trashy yards, and not having 10 cars piled up on your lawn like a redneck, but does flying the American flag in an American neighborhood really affect property values?

Does it matter? The people of that community established certain rules in a democratic fashion. The veteran was at no point forced to sign any contract. He agreed to those terms when he moved in and now anybody who points out that little fact is a troop hater or America! **** YEAH! political dissident. Everything and anything affects property values. At the end of the day its a matter of agreeing to sign a contract and not keeping your end of the deal on it.
 
Does it matter? The people of that community established certain rules in a democratic fashion. The veteran was at no point forced to sign any contract. He agreed to those terms when he moved in and now anybody who points out that little fact is a troop hater or America! **** YEAH! political dissident. Everything and anything affects property values. At the end of the day its a matter of agreeing to sign a contract and not keeping your end of the deal on it.
You are mistaken, HOAs usually require you to sign a contract (upon purchase) that include the covenants and you agree to pay an annual fee. That fee pays for services undertaken or contracted by the HOA, including paying lawyers to force you to follow the rules if necessary.
 
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Does it matter? The people of that community established certain rules in a democratic fashion. The veteran was at no point forced to sign any contract. He agreed to those terms when he moved in and now anybody who points out that little fact is a troop hater or America! **** YEAH! political dissident. Everything and anything affects property values. At the end of the day its a matter of agreeing to sign a contract and not keeping your end of the deal on it.

Again, I understand the contract HOA agruement and facts.

But why would a HOA not allow American flags to fly in an American neighborhood? I am pretty sure, if flags were allowed to fly in that neighborhood, along with the HOA housing-nazi rules involved, property values would not be diminished but would probably increase.

I mean, HOAs are fine I guess, in some instances, but there needs to be some common ****ing sense thrown into them from the get go.

Can they attach/screw one of those 45 degree poles on the side of their homes and fly the flag that way? Or is that property-proof as well?

[and I am joking with the nazi stuff...lol, dont take that to heart]
 
Hatuey said:
And respect isn't demanded. It is earned. :2wave:

I'd say he's earned it.

I'd say that he keeps it by abiding by agreements into which he entered voluntarily. Like signing documents to buy a home where there was a HOA, for example.
 
I'd say that he keeps it by abiding by agreements into which he entered voluntarily. Like signing documents to buy a home where there was a HOA, for example.

Like how you were for giving AIG bonuses through legal contracts, even though your own government renigged on it and bastardized the employees and managers for allowing those legal contracts?
 
Again, I understand the contract HOA agruement and facts.

But why would a HOA not allow American flags to fly in an American neighborhood? I am pretty sure, if flags were allowed to fly in that neighborhood, along with the HOA housing-nazi rules involved, property values would not be diminished but would probably increase.

I mean, HOAs are fine I guess, in some instances, but there needs to be some common ****ing sense thrown into them from the get go.

Can they attach/screw one of those 45 degree poles on the side of their homes and fly the flag that way? Or is that property-proof as well?
[and I am joking with the nazi stuff...lol, dont take that to heart]

The HOA agreement negates the need for common sense, it tells you what you can & can not do......
Some HOA's go as far to tell you what color is acceptable to paint your house.....
They can always amend the By laws, if thet want to....;)
 
Like how you were for giving AIG bonuses through legal contracts, even though your own government renigged on it and bastardized the employees and managers for allowing those legal contracts?

It's OK when the GUBMINT does it.....;)
 
Again, I understand the contract HOA agruement and facts.

But why would a HOA not allow American flags to fly in an American neighborhood? I am pretty sure, if flags were allowed to fly in that neighborhood, along with the HOA housing-nazi rules involved, property values would not be diminished but would probably increase.

I mean, HOAs are fine I guess, in some instances, but there needs to be some common ****ing sense thrown into them from the get go.

Can they attach/screw one of those 45 degree poles on the side of their homes and fly the flag that way? Or is that property-proof as well?

[and I am joking with the nazi stuff...lol, dont take that to heart]

This disagreement is NOT about whether the HOA were willing to let him fly a flag. This disagreement was about whether he could have a free standing flagpole. He WAS permitted to fly a flag under the HOA rules from a different style of flag pole. It is dishonest of this veteran to try to make it out to be about being permitted to fly the flag. Dishonest enough to reduce my respect for him.
 
Again, I understand the contract HOA agruement and facts.

But why would a HOA not allow American flags to fly in an American neighborhood? I am pretty sure, if flags were allowed to fly in that neighborhood, along with the HOA housing-nazi rules involved, property values would not be diminished but would probably increase.

I mean, HOAs are fine I guess, in some instances, but there needs to be some common ****ing sense thrown into them from the get go.

Can they attach/screw one of those 45 degree poles on the side of their homes and fly the flag that way? Or is that property-proof as well?

[and I am joking with the nazi stuff...lol, dont take that to heart]
This is not the fact at all. You may fly a flag, just not from a free-standing flagpole.
 
Like how you were for giving AIG bonuses through legal contracts, even though your own government renigged on it and bastardized the employees and managers for allowing those legal contracts?

And even if this were true (which it is not), and it were indeed analogous (which it is not), then you would only have succeeded in saying that I don't deserve respect.

Do you think that people who wilfully renege on agreements without cause deserve respect?
 
This is not the fact at all. You may fly a flag, just not from a free-standing flagpole.

So he can do it on one of those 45 degreers then?

Is there really a difference b/w a free standing flag pole and a screw in on the side of your house? I mean, the HOA is kinda getting a little technical with that dont ya think?

I mean, its not like a free standing flag pole in a hood like that is not gonna be kept up, as obviously there are plenty of housing-nazi rules to not allow such an instance.

I mean "you can have this flag pole, but you cant have this one..":doh

Its a little I dont know, retarded? My parents neighborhood wher I grew up, my dad was the President of the HOA for a few years. Flag poles were allowed, and out of over 300 houses, there might have been 3 flag poles for the entire hood. Its not a common thing to begin with. Unless its a strictly military hood, which, ours was and it still wasnt an abundant thing.
 
So he can do it on one of those 45 degreers then?

Is there really a difference b/w a free standing flag pole and a screw in on the side of your house? I mean, the HOA is kinda getting a little technical with that dont ya think?

I mean, its not like a free standing flag pole in a hood like that is not gonna be kept up, as obviously there are plenty of housing-nazi rules to not allow such an instance.

I mean "you can have this flag pole, but you cant have this one..":doh

Its a little I dont know, retarded? My parents neighborhood wher I grew up, my dad was the President of the HOA for a few years. Flag poles were allowed, and out of over 300 houses, there might have been 3 flag poles for the entire hood. Its not a common thing to begin with. Unless its a strictly military hood, which, ours was and it still wasnt an abundant thing.

Rules are rules, read the fine print.....;)
 
Rules are rules, read the fine print.....;)

Yeah exactly, that is why I moved to the country so that I can be free from all these idiotic nonsensical rules of some pleeb 4 houses down who thinks I am to much a hick b/c I have a flag pole in my yard. ;)

Of course there are rules out in the country too. But none of the type you see in HOAs. Man and his control of all aspects. You can find it in any instance.
 
You are mistaken, HOAs usually require you to sign a contract (upon purchase) that include the covenants and you agree to pay an annual fee. That fee pays for services undertaken or contracted by the HOA, including paying lawyers to force you to follow the rules if necessary.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that he wasn't forced though. If I don't feel like I agree with all the terms on a contract. I don't sign it. I'm not bound to to. Once I do? It is safe to say that I've agreed to everything to everything on it. There a few other hundred neighborhoods he could have moved into in Virginia that I'm sure would allow free standing flag poles and have no rules on free standing flag poles.
 
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that he wasn't forced though. If I don't feel like I agree with all the terms on a contract. I don't sign it. I'm not bound to to. Once I do? It is safe to say that I've agreed to everything to everything on it. There a few other hundred neighborhoods he could have moved into in Virginia that I'm sure would allow free standing flag poles and have no rules on free standing flag poles.

It really irks me about libertarian minded people who move to neighborhoods that have HOAs and rules. I've lived in both HOA neighborhoods and ones without (currently live in one without). The ones with are generally very pristine, monochromatic (figuratively) and consistently 'nice'. I chose to leave. To live in one that was eclectic, colorful and patchy (and HOA free).

I never once considered flouting the rules because I didn't like them.

Alot of people move to neighborhoods with HOAs because they like those neighborhoods. They want to live around people who agree with them. When you move into those neighborhoods you sign something that says that you will abide by the system and standards, presumably because you agree with them.

What is so hard about this? I am not getting where this veteran was picked on. He is the one who broke his agreement with his neighbors, not the other way around.
 
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