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New Obama plans: 'spend our way out' of downturn

Aunt Spiker said:
Many people don't have money in private funding - OR - have plenty in private funding and intend to use it in the future and are doing fine without it, they don't need extra spending done . . . this is me.

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and I know a few of those who don't have it....but I know even more people who do. We saved more than we needed, and even tho we lost a large chunk of it in the last 2 Wall Street downturns, we are fine. Our incomes are as much as we were making in our last year of working and our houses are paid for, so our IRA funds/deferred savings are not really needed so much. That is the source of our big spending....and that applies to a large percentage of retirees. I forget where I read it, but it said that there are trillions tied up in deferred savings accounts, and most of them are in low interest paying fixed income accounts. So my message to other old people is, spend it already !!!:lol:
If you don't, your children surely will.....;)
 
My thoughts is that we do have to spend money on job programs ectt. I believe this is the right way to do something. Look at the great depression, For example, FDR spent money for things like Jobs ectt.... It necessary to spend on things to get us out of this job lose ect.


Thought people do need to think a head save a little each day for a rainy day ectt. For when, you get sick and can't work, or even when this market crashes ect.
 
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RyrineaHaruno said:
My thoughts is that we do have to spend money on job programs ectt. I believe this is the right way to do something. Look at the great depression, For example, FDR spent money for things like Jobs ectt.... It necessary to spend on things to get us out of this job lose ect.


Thought people do need to think a head save a little each day for a rainy day ectt. For when, you get sick and can't work, or even when this market crashes ect.
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You can't create a job out of thin air, there has to be demand for goods, products, services. Until people start spending again, there will be little demand for jobs...
Again, we are retirees, and as such we spend our money a bit differently than a young couple with children. When we go out to eat, the resturaunts are nearly empty. Fast food places, like Wendy's, is never packed at lunch time like it used to be. That is where we see the evidence that people aren't spending.
But we do go into the toy stores some, buying for Christmas. It seems to be picking up a bit, but time will tell.
A good part of our recession is based on fear. People are spending less because they don't know if they will have a job next month or next year. The recovery will be very slow. Spending habits have gone back to the 50's and 60's for many of us. Point is, if you have it, and don't need it, don't be so afraid to spend it. There are some great deals to be had right now.
We are saving a lot on our basement work, seems that there are a lot of contractors out of work, and they aren't charging as much as 2 years ago....material costs are down as well. Our contractor SIL is busy, and grateful to be busy, but still not making as much for his efforts as 2 years ago. He has had to lower his rates to get the work, just like the rest of them.
 
misterman said:
No, that's wrong. Tax cuts have much less effect on short-term consumer spending than a stimulus. Tax cuts help the wealthy, who don't need to spend the money anyway. They may invest it, but we need spending right now. Tax cuts may be good in the long term (or not), but not in a crisis.
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100 percent wrong.

Tax cuts change the dynamics of business entirely. Expansion and investment are based on risk threshold. Business can tolerate only a certain risk threshold and remain viable and attract outside investors. Lower tax burdens create a much more favorable and projectable risk assessment for expansion.

And in the end, tax cuts raise taxes! That is the dirty secret that Democrats KNOW and make sure their constituents do not.

Would you rather have 10 percent of $20 or 8 percent of $30? The lower the tax rate, the greater the expansion, and the more profit and employee salaries to tax. It's so, so simple, and it's been proven through history to be the only thing that works every time.
 
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misterman said:
;)



This thread is about the economy and how best to help it...
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Git all the Libbos out of the government would the first major step towards helping the economy.
 
Whip Comes Down said:
What would you have done, Prof?
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I would have totally unleashed every industry that harvests natural resources and got some cash flowing. I certainly wouldn't have shut them down, completely. That was idiotic.

My second major step would be to cut corporate, self employment and payroll taxes and greatly reduce the cost of doing business, thereby spurring growth. I sure as hell wouldn't have put more taxes on businesses. Again, that was idiotic.
 
apdst said:
Git all the Libbos out of the government would the first major step towards helping the economy.
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The scariest thing to me is that I believe Obama actually wants this economy to bomb. He wants to create GOVERNMENT jobs, so his long-term plans of killing America as we know it will pan out. It's about control of and dependency on the government.

That's what Ayers, Obama, Pelosi, Kerry, and all of the elite liberals want in their heart of hearts.
 
The only thing Obama will do is spend us into another banana Republic or worse yet turn us into the next Zimbabwe.
 
apdst said:
Git all the Libbos out of the government would the first major step towards helping the economy.
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:roll::roll::roll:
 
Whip Comes Down said:
What would you have done, Prof?
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2 year halving of payroll taxes

permanent cap on capital gains of 15%

national mobilization, emergency footing, like fdr in ww2, in the area of energy production---omnibus approach, oil, offshore, drilling, refining, shale, electrical power plants, gas, clean coal, nukes, wind, solar, tidal, alternatives, r&d, tax cuts for and public investment in any responsible or semi responsible proposal that holds the promise of producing power

he who creates energy has the entire world at his well grounded feet

the world energy shortage is only going to grow more catastrophic as the century progresses

great jobs, high paying, secure, productive...

of course, no one (but you) ever asked me
 
fdr was a great war leader but when it came to the economy he was a disaster

in the early months of 39 before adolf invaded poland our unemployment was STILL high double digits

google "roosevelt recession"

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1937]Recession of 1937?1938 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


1937 saw a huge downturn in our already thru-the-floor economy

a recession on top of a depression

so much so, "roosevelt recession" became a buzzword

"spending our way out" didn't work
 
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Erod said:
The scariest thing to me is that I believe Obama actually wants this economy to bomb. He wants to create GOVERNMENT jobs, so his long-term plans of killing America as we know it will pan out. It's about control of and dependency on the government.

That's what Ayers, Obama, Pelosi, Kerry, and all of the elite liberals want in their heart of hearts.
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I know he does! He can't pass his welfare projects if the economy is booming.
 
Turbeaux said:
The only thing Obama will do is spend us into another banana Republic or worse yet turn us into the next Zimbabwe.
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The question is, is that what he truly wants deep down in his soul?
 
The Prof said:
2 year halving of payroll taxes

permanent cap on capital gains of 15%

national mobilization, emergency footing, like fdr in ww2, in the area of energy production---omnibus approach, oil, offshore, drilling, refining, shale, electrical power plants, gas, clean coal, nukes, wind, solar, tidal, alternatives, r&d, tax cuts for and public investment in any responsible or semi responsible proposal that holds the promise of producing power

he who creates energy has the entire world at his well grounded feet

the world energy shortage is only going to grow more catastrophic as the century progresses

great jobs, high paying, secure, productive...

of course, no one (but you) ever asked me
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Prof, why is it so hard? Your plan would not only work, it would work virtually instantly. That would not only jumpstart jobs and economy, it would bring outside investment in America from every corner of the planet.
 
recovery is NOT the goal of obama's economists

govt control is their objective
 
The Prof said:
2 year halving of payroll taxes

permanent cap on capital gains of 15%
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Will increase the deficit massively.

national mobilization, emergency footing, like fdr in ww2, in the area of energy production---omnibus approach, oil, offshore, drilling, refining, shale, electrical power plants, gas, clean coal, nukes, wind, solar, tidal, alternatives, r&d, tax cuts for and public investment in any responsible or semi responsible proposal that holds the promise of producing power
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Sounds like socialism to me.. forcing people to do things.. oh and lets not forget that all those tax cuts will increase the deficit massively on top of the above.

the world energy shortage is only going to grow more catastrophic as the century progresses
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I agree, but do you really think that the right in the US will be able to kick the habit of getting millions from the coal and oil lobby? Remember no matter how you slice and dice it, oil and coal are not the future.

great jobs, high paying, secure, productive...
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a pipedream as long as companies can get away with exporting jobs overseas.
 
PeteEU said:
Sounds like socialism to me.. forcing people to do things..
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Sure, because when you look up socialism in the dictionary, it says "forcing people to do things." :doh
 
The Prof said:
2 year halving of payroll taxes

permanent cap on capital gains of 15%

national mobilization, emergency footing, like fdr in ww2, in the area of energy production---omnibus approach, oil, offshore, drilling, refining, shale, electrical power plants, gas, clean coal, nukes, wind, solar, tidal, alternatives, r&d, tax cuts for and public investment in any responsible or semi responsible proposal that holds the promise of producing power
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Nukes, yes, but there is no such thing as clean coal. A coal plant capable of cutting its CO2 emissions in half (cleaner, but not clean) would likely cost more than a nuke plant of comparable output. And that is just the CO2, coal plants also emit radioactive wastes, sulphur, mercury, and thousands of tons of ash per plant.
Likewise wind, solar, tidal, all are horribly expensive to build and maintain compared to existing major sources of electricity. Plus, they are not alternatives, they are merely supplements. They will never be a major source of electricity, or base load. Gas is best used for peaking loads, and the wind/solar in SOME areas could also be supplements.
And you left out the cheapest most viable part of energy, conserving it. All you talk about in that post was producing it. Produce what we need, yes, but stop wasting so much of it.
Edward Mazria is an architect behind the Architecture 2030 plan, he estimates that we can cut the number of new power plants considerably if we simply do a better job of making all new buildings energy efficient.
 
UtahBill said:
Nukes, yes, but there is no such thing as clean coal. A coal plant capable of cutting its CO2 emissions in half (cleaner, but not clean) would likely cost more than a nuke plant of comparable output. And that is just the CO2, coal plants also emit radioactive wastes, sulphur, mercury, and thousands of tons of ash per plant.
Likewise wind, solar, tidal, all are horribly expensive to build and maintain compared to existing major sources of electricity. Plus, they are not alternatives, they are merely supplements. They will never be a major source of electricity, or base load. Gas is best used for peaking loads, and the wind/solar in SOME areas could also be supplements.
And you left out the cheapest most viable part of energy, conserving it. All you talk about in that post was producing it. Produce what we need, yes, but stop wasting so much of it.
Edward Mazria is an architect behind the Architecture 2030 plan, he estimates that we can cut the number of new power plants considerably if we simply do a better job of making all new buildings energy efficient.
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And the funny thing is, just about everybody agrees with that.

The problem is, liberals aren't about to "share" this issue. They keep running to the left with it as far as they have to so they can keep it for their own and campaign on it.

That's how the monstrosities known as Global Warming and Cap and Trade came about.
 
Erod said:
And the funny thing is, just about everybody agrees with that.

The problem is, liberals aren't about to "share" this issue. They keep running to the left with it as far as they have to so they can keep it for their own and campaign on it.

That's how the monstrosities known as Global Warming and Cap and Trade came about.
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clean and coal don't belong together in the same sentence. it's a total joke. we had our energy solution and morons were afraid of it and now we have this mess.
 
misterman said:
No, that's wrong. Tax cuts have much less effect on short-term consumer spending than a stimulus. Tax cuts help the wealthy, who don't need to spend the money anyway. They may invest it, but we need spending right now. Tax cuts may be good in the long term (or not), but not in a crisis.
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How did the stimulus help Middle America spend money?
 
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