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Thread: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

  1. #181
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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The First Amendment clearly applies to public land.
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Which part of that applies to public land? Since the amendment clearly states Congress shall make no law....

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, that's not all it says, and you know it.
    Yes, it is all it says. The Constitution does not mention religious displays on public land. As such, it is reserved for the States and the People. It's their choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I'm not the only one who thinks you're wrong, the courts think so too.
    Nothing says the courts are immune to treason and tyranny. The judicial branch can very easily overstep its bounds the same as any other branch of government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by carlkay58 View Post
    The writers used a common speech common sense approach in all of their writings.
    The Constitution and Bill of Rights are full of vague ambiguous crap.

    Second, you are right, dictionary meanings did not come into play until the 1800s with Webster and a few other compilers. Until then word meanings and spellings were pretty loosely followed.
    There were dictionaries in 1787.

    Using common sense can determine much of what it covers.
    There were well established common law rules of construction in 1787.

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Which part of that applies to public land? Since the amendment clearly states Congress shall make no law....
    Please educate yourself about incorporation of the Bill of Rights via the 14th Amendment.

    Yes, it is all it says. The Constitution does not mention religious displays on public land. As such, it is reserved for the States and the People. It's their choice.
    Uh, no. You don't even have to go to law school to punch through this ridiculous argument. The Constitution, like any law, is general language that applies to specific situations in the real world, and can't possibly mention everything.

    Nothing says the courts are immune to treason and tyranny. The judicial branch can very easily overstep its bounds the same as any other branch of government.
    Sure they can. But it's up to you to explain how they have, since they agree with me.

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Please educate yourself about incorporation of the Bill of Rights via the 14th Amendment.
    Let's see here

    "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

    Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. "

    So what part of that expands the first amendment to cover religious displays on public property. Maybe instead of me "educating" myself about the 14th, you should educate yourself on the 10th.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. "

    So what does that say? It says powers NOT GRANTED to the federal government, nor prohibited from the State are reserved to the States or the People. Since the first amendment doesn't cover religious displays on public land, it is reserved to the State and the People. Thus it is up to them to handle this themselves, and is not up to the federal government.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Uh, no. You don't even have to go to law school to punch through this ridiculous argument. The Constitution, like any law, is general language that applies to specific situations in the real world, and can't possibly mention everything.
    Which is why everything else is left to the States and the People. It looks like your "punch" couldn't get through a wet paper bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure they can. But it's up to you to explain how they have, since they agree with me.
    The 9th and the 10th amendment.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Let's see here

    "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

    Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. "

    So what part of that expands the first amendment to cover religious displays on public property. Maybe instead of me "educating" myself about the 14th, you should educate yourself on the 10th.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. "

    So what does that say? It says powers NOT GRANTED to the federal government, nor prohibited from the State are reserved to the States or the People. Since the first amendment doesn't cover religious displays on public land, it is reserved to the State and the People. Thus it is up to them to handle this themselves, and is not up to the federal government.
    What a waste of bandwidth.

    The First Amendment clearly applies to public land. Your argument is beyond absurd. It's hyperliteral. Not even the most extreme strict constitutionalist takes it to your crazy extremes. Please educate yourself.

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    What a waste of bandwidth.

    The First Amendment clearly applies to public land. Your argument is beyond absurd. It's hyperliteral. Not even the most extreme strict constitutionalist takes it to your crazy extremes. Please educate yourself.
    If it's so clear, why don't you make a case. All you've managed to do thus far is to say "Nu uh!!!" and run away. That's it. I've posted the 1st, I've posted the 14th, I've posted the 10th, I've referenced the 9th and made arguments for each as to why it doesn't include public land. So where's your argument? If you're just going to say "Nu uh", then it's pointless to try to debate. If you have something of substance, please post it. Otherwise, engaging in childish antics and non-information does not benefit anyone nor does it advance the argument.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    LOL Yeah! Its separation of church and state!
    What's wrong with removing Christmas' federal holiday status. I'd be for that. And I'm sure a lot of Christians would too, since it would help to remove the "commercialism" from Christmas and return it to a more traditional holiday like Easter.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Wait, that isn't in the Constitution either.... never mind
    Uh dude...

    "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion..."

    That's what separation of church and state means. You're being intellecutally dishonest. The exact words don't exist in the Constitution, but the concept is what the 1st Amendment is based on.

    By allowing the integration of church and state, congress is by defacto establishing religion. And regardless of the 1st Amendment, it's still an ignorant idea to allow religion to creep into government. Religion has no place in our laws.
    Last edited by Toothpicvic; 12-07-09 at 07:58 PM.

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If it's so clear, why don't you make a case. All you've managed to do thus far is to say "Nu uh!!!" and run away. That's it. I've posted the 1st, I've posted the 14th, I've posted the 10th, I've referenced the 9th and made arguments for each as to why it doesn't include public land. So where's your argument? If you're just going to say "Nu uh", then it's pointless to try to debate. If you have something of substance, please post it. Otherwise, engaging in childish antics and non-information does not benefit anyone nor does it advance the argument.
    Because its so damn obvious.

    The 9th and 10th doesn't prove the government isn't public land. The fact that public land, by definition, is land owned and managed by the government makes it the government. So incredibly obvious I shouldn't have to say it. You are the only person in the entire universe that would argue that the government doesn't include public land in the application of the First Amendment.

    Stop wasting my time.

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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Because its so damn obvious.

    The 9th and 10th doesn't prove the government isn't public land. The fact that public land, by definition, is land owned and managed by the government makes it the government. So incredibly obvious I shouldn't have to say it. You are the only person in the entire universe that would argue that the government doesn't include public land in the application of the First Amendment.

    Stop wasting my time.
    Once again, but this time coherently please.

    You've still offered up nothing but some confused argument that doesn't amount to anything. Once again, can you back up your claim? 1st amendment says Congress will make no law. It says nothing of display of religious symbols on public land. 14th holds the Bill of Rights to the States. So the State Congress can make no law. Once again, nothing about religious symbols on public land. 9th Amendment states that not all rights are enumerated in the Bill of Rights, others are reserved. Nothing about religious on public land. The 10th amendment says that if the power is not granted to the federal government and it is not prohibited to the States, then the power is reserved by the States and the People. Again, nothing about religious symbols on public land.

    So in the end, I contend that religious symbols on public land is a decision to be made at the State and local level, not on the federal level. You just come up with a "Nu uh" argument and run off. So this time why don't you make a coherent argument which outlines your point. If you're incapable of doing so; then please save the rest of us grief and just move along. Angry, childish arguments aren't going to get us anywhere.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #190
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    Re: Sarah Palin says US should rededicate itself to God

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    1st amendment says Congress will make no law. It says nothing of display of religious symbols on public land.
    Okay, this time SLOOOWLY.

    Public land is bought and maintained by a government making laws. To acquire the land, a law was passed. To create the government agencies that manage it and make policies for it, a law was passed.

    14th holds the Bill of Rights to the States. So the State Congress can make no law.
    Right. Now, skipping over the other worthless crap...

    So in the end, I contend that religious symbols on public land is a decision to be made at the State and local level, not on the federal level.
    Yes. And you just admitted that the 14th amendment makes the 1st amendment apply to the states. So we're done here.

    You just come up with a "Nu uh" argument and run off.
    No, actually, I've already explained to you both my points here - the doctrine of incorporation and the fact that management of public land is "making law" in the sense of the First Amendment. You just aren't listening.

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