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Thread: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Had Knox committed her crime in the US, not one of you posters would be calling foul. Not one of you.
    We have plenty of protections against unfair trials though. We'll even give fair civil trials to terrorist suspects.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We have plenty of protections against unfair trials though. We'll even give fair civil trials to terrorist suspects.
    Let me know when that happens, won't you?
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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We have plenty of protections against unfair trials though. We'll even give fair civil trials to terrorist suspects.
    2009 Miscarriages of Justice in the US:

    * Alan Beaman, convicted for the stabbing and strangling to death of his ex-girlfriend, was exonerated.
    * Timothy Cole was convicted in 1985 for a rape he did not commit, he was posthumously exonerated in early February 2009 after serving 14 years. He died in prison in 1999.
    * Thaddeus Jimenez spent more than 16 years in jail before his conviction was tossed.
    * Sgt. Brian W. Foster's conviction for rape was overturned.
    * Joseph R. Fears, Jr. was convicted in 1984 for two rapes. His sentence was overturned after DNA evidence proved that he didn't commit one of the rapes.
    * Paul House was exonerated after spending 22 years on death row for murder.
    * Joshua Kezer's 60 years prison sentence for second-degree murder was overturned. Circuit Judge Richard Callahan said: "The criminal justice system failed in the investigative and charging stage, it failed at trial, it failed at post-trial review and it failed during the appellate process."
    * Bill Dillon's life sentence for murder was overturned. He was convicted in 1981 based on John Preston's testimony that he and his scent-tracking German-Shepherd connected Dillon to the killer’s bloody t-shirt. However, a 2007 DNA test proved that Dillon's DNA did not match the DNA on the t-shirt. Hundreds of other convictions based on the alleged abilities of the same dog are now in doubt.
    * Darryl Burton. Wrongly convicted and imprisoned for 24 years.

    Ah! You'll say, but the fact that these were discovered to be miscarriages at all means that our safeguards work. Well, to an extent. But they also work in Italy, although there are far fewer recorded...

    Miscarriages of Justice in Italy

    * Pietro Valpreda, an anarchist condemned for the 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing, was finally found innocent sixteen years later. He was framed since it was planned to blame the crime on the radical Left, while it was committed by Neo-Fascist groups as the first step of the strategy of tension.
    * Enzo Tortora, a popular anchorman on national RAI television, was arrested in 1983 and held in jail for months on trumped up charges by several pentiti of the Camorra and other people already known for perjury. It was soon noted that this was most likely an mis-identification due to confusion with a man bearing the same surname (meaning "turtledove"), but the pentiti kept on accusing Tortora of the gravest offenses related to drug dealing. He was sentenced to ten years in jail in his first trial held in 1985, being spared further incarceration only thanks to the providential intervention of the Radical Party who offered him a candidacy to the European Parliament, a place Tortora won in a landslide as the country became divided between those who held him guilty and those who held him innocent. He was completely acquitted and rehabilitated in 1986; he returned the next year to his work in TV, to a moving comeback in his "Portobello" show, to die in 1988 from cancer and become an icon of injustice and a perpetual reminder of the gravest public blunder of the Italian judiciary system.
    * Daniele Barillà, an entrepreneur mistakenly identified as a major drug cartel boss in Milan, spent more than 7 years in jail in 1992-1999, despite growing evidence of his complete innocence and non-involvement in any criminal activity. To this day, the Italian state hasn't awarded him any compensation.

    All interesting cases. Now, what makes your system so much more reliable?
    Last edited by Andalublue; 03-11-10 at 08:00 PM.
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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Where do you get off calling a high court in a developed EU country a "kangaroo court"?
    Let's see...

    The lead prosecutor is a corrupt (he was recently found guilty of prosecutorial misconduct) and fantastical figure who gleaned a motive from an occultist blogger that claims to communicate with the dead.

    The jury had full access to sensational media reports painting Amanda Knox as a sex-crazed satanic American whore, AKA, Foxy Knoxy, which was just a nickname she was given for her soccer skills.

    The chain of evidence was broken.

    Key pieces of forensic evidence were mishandled by investigators.

    Want more?

    Your attitude is insulting, pompous and xenophobic. And how about a word of condolence for the family of Meredith Kercher, the young Yorkshire student Knox and Solecito have now been shown, proved and convicted of murdering.
    Laughable. I defy you to read this entire thread and make that claim again.

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Her appeal is already in hand. I've no doubt any new evidence will be accorded the weight it deserves depending on the strength of the material. I just hope that the media hoopla around these claims and rumours don't further turn the knife in the wound of the Kercher family.
    The Kercher family's loss is no reason to send an innocent girl to jail for twenty-six years.

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The Kercher family's loss is no reason to send an innocent girl to jail for twenty-six years.
    I'm still not hearing any sympathy, whether or not you believe Knox is innocent.

    If she is, then she has an appeal, which will be heard by a different judge, before a different jury. If she is found guilty again, will you accept the verdict? If she is found not guilty, I'll be happy to accept your criticisms of the original trial in relation to the inadequacy of that original process. After all, that's the purpose of appeals, and the inevitable conclusion of any overturned verdict, no?
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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I fully support this conviction. I watched the news reports on this trial. They showed Amanda Knox smiling and laughing in the court room. Excuse me? You're on trial for murder and you can't stop smiling? Sorry, but someone who was truly innocent, wouldn't be looking at these charges lightly, IMO. She cried when the verdict was read. Oh brother. I'm not sympathetic.
    I am not sure if smiling is relevant. But if she is guilty of the crime then should pay the price, being a citizen of another country does not make immune to the laws of a country you are a guest in.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'm still not hearing any sympathy, whether or not you believe Knox is innocent.
    Of course I have sympathy for them. That goes without saying, unless you think I'm a monster.

    My problem with people referencing the Kercher's pain is that they often use it as a pretext to condemn Amanda Knox.

    If she is, then she has an appeal, which will be heard by a different judge, before a different jury.
    I understand how it works, and am glad for it, but that does not excuse the numerous and obvious shortcomings of the initial trial.

    If she is found guilty again, will you accept the verdict?
    I would have to review the trial before I came to a decision.

    If she is found not guilty, I'll be happy to accept your criticisms of the original trial in relation to the inadequacy of that original process. After all, that's the purpose of appeals, and the inevitable conclusion of any overturned verdict, no?
    There is no reason for it to have gone this far. The prosecutor and the Italian media crucified her because they were concerned with their reputation and ratings, respectively...

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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Of course I have sympathy for them. That goes without saying, unless you think I'm a monster.

    My problem with people referencing the Kercher's pain is that they often use it as a pretext to condemn Amanda Knox.
    I'm certainly not suggesting you are a monster, but these things do not go without saying. The only sympathy I have encountered on this thread is for Knox.

    There is no reason for it to have gone this far. The prosecutor and the Italian media crucified her because they were concerned with their reputation and ratings, respectively...
    I do regret the media circus that accompanied this trial. There are analagous "show trials" in most countries that damage the ability of defendants to receive a fair trial. The media circus surrounding such high-profile cases make the operation of the justice system incredibly difficult. Think about the Louise Woodward and Phil Spector trials in the US, the Bulger case in the UK, Fritzl in Austria, Samu Carcaño in Spain.

    With some of those cases it was found that media attention had affected the verdicts, some not. The only thing that can be said is that the media coverage cannot be allowed to drive the conclusions of the court, but that you cannot ethically judge that effect until the courts have been allowed to conclude their deliberations. Let's let that process conclude before drawing damning conclusions.
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    Re: Italian court convicts Amanda Knox of murder

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'm certainly not suggesting you are a monster, but these things do not go without saying. The only sympathy I have encountered on this thread is for Knox.
    Any decent human being has sympathy for Meredith Kercher and her family. I do believe that goes without saying.

    I do regret the media circus that accompanied this trial.
    Do you also regret the lack of evidence that links Amanda or Rafaelle to the murder, or the prosecutor's bizarre methods and history of prosecutorial misconduct?

    There are analagous "show trials" in most countries that damage the ability of defendants to receive a fair trial. The media circus surrounding such high-profile cases make the operation of the justice system incredibly difficult. Think about the Louise Woodward and Phil Spector trials in the US, the Bulger case in the UK, Fritzl in Austria, Samu Carcaño in Spain.
    All high profile cases can be influenced by the media but it seems like the Italian system does not take pains to prevent this by sequestering juries or at least granting a change of venue.

    With some of those cases it was found that media attention had affected the verdicts, some not. The only thing that can be said is that the media coverage cannot be allowed to drive the conclusions of the court, but that you cannot ethically judge that effect until the courts have been allowed to conclude their deliberations. Let's let that process conclude before drawing damning conclusions.
    I've seen the "evidence" against Amanda and Rafaelle and it is totally lacking in probative value. If you wish to challenge this assertion with facts of your own, I welcome it.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 03-12-10 at 06:02 PM.

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