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Thread: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Welcome to the Whigs, Arch Enemy! Glad to have you. That 5k rank looks pretty cool! (I did the rank banners)

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    We should have the best offensive capabilities money can buy, but those capabilities should only be used for war, not peace-keeping, not nation-building, and not chasing criminal gangs in the desert, many of whom have the support of the very people we think we are helping.
    I disagree. Our military has strengths for both the first half and second half of a war. First half with line combat troops, armor, artillery, air. Second half with COIN, Intel, PRTs. According to Thomas Barnett, we should split the military into a combat force (for first half) and a "SysAdmin" force for second half reconstruction/regime change/counterinsurgency work. If we set our minds to it, we will get quite competent, more so than we are today and we are doing pretty good.

  3. #63
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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Isn't it easy for all of the Anti-American Socialists/Communists blame & America firsters to want to bury their empty heads in the sand.

    The very best thing you can do to help Obama lend aid and comfort to the enemy is do nothing and allow Obama to get his way and allow infiltrators to continue to cross our borders unchecked, ignore terrorist attacks (Ft, Hood), and announce our military plans to the enemy. All the time doing nothing while they build their forces and power and eventually hit us here at home again.

    Of course Obama the do nothing right yet imbecile can always use his favorite excuse for everything he fouls up and blame Bush but that's getting plenty damn old.

    Isolationism was preached by a lot of people when the first Nation run by NAZIs were taking over Europe before we entered WWII, imagine what it would be like had we done as they wanted us to do. You'd be speaking German and saluting a different Socialist/Communist government.
    "conservative" says it all
    This "liberal", in order to refute these arguments says, that isolation never has worked in the past and will not work in the future.
    Our nation must learn to respect others, as difficult as this may be.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Welcome to the Whigs, Arch Enemy! Glad to have you. That 5k rank looks pretty cool! (I did the rank banners)
    It does look pretty cool! I found the Modern Whigs to have the best platform for me. I take supporting the, and the family of, military men and women very seriously.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  5. #65
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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    The United States Congress considered it an act of war, have you read the Authorization? Got stuff like "Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States;", and "the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons" and stuff like that you wouldn't see used against a mafia.
    Everyone makes mistakes.
    Correct, there would be no war necessary. But they didn't so...war necesssary...right?
    War necesssary because of the Taliban's refusal, not because of the terrorist attack.
    Al Capone was a US citizen! I don't see your analogy at all here. You'd support sending the troops in after an al-Qaeda harbored by the Taliban correct? That is saying you favor the US military being used to chase criminals. Repsonsible for collecting data or evidence on the battlefield as well? Must we read them rights if they're merely criminals, are they presumed innocent?
    If Al Capone flew a plane into the Eiffel Tower would it have been an act of war? The point was there are many organizations around the world capable of such an attack that are not government organizations. When the IRA blows up a bus it is not an act of war, it is terrorism. Al Qaeda is not an army, it is a cult or criminal organization. And you seem to agree that it is stupid to declare war on criminals.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post

    War necesssary because of the Taliban's refusal, not because of the terrorist attack.
    Good point
    If Al Capone flew a plane into the Eiffel Tower would it have been an act of war? The point was there are many organizations around the world capable of such an attack that are not government organizations. When the IRA blows up a bus it is not an act of war, it is terrorism. Al Qaeda is not an army, it is a cult or criminal organization. And you seem to agree that it is stupid to declare war on criminals.
    al-Qa'ida isn't even a cult or a criminal organization, or it's not anymore. al-Qa'ida is (I'm so going to get hell for making this comparison) as structural as the Underground Railroad; it's a series of check-points where any Radical Jihadist can fight the West (it also takes cash, cheque, or pay-pal for anybody willing to fund violent jihad).

    Today we prefer to consider al-Qa'ida to be "geographically isolated". The council that used to be clear as day is barely even part of this world anymore, and we see former detainees being scratched out of the bottom of the barrel to play the role of P.R. man
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Personally, I'm fed up with the constant wars and interventions around the world we are involved in. We've had some 30,000 troops guarding the Korean border for something like 50 years while at the same time we can't guard our own. Haven't the past 2000 years of history taught you anything?? 300,000 troops cannot stop man from securing a better life, as do the Mexicans in our nation.., is the solution to make our nation less desirable ?? We have troops and military bases on every continent in the world and for what? I say finish the fracas in Afghanistan, bring ubl's head home on a stick and be done with it.This is what the Romans would do.. Empire is simply too expensive at a time when we aren't sure if our bridges will last or the simple fact we have no idea who or what is simply skipping across our border. Enough is enough, it's obscene already.
    I am not in favor of these wars, peaceful intervention(without any religion) is more effective, but takes a lot more time.
    We must be patient.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Step 1: Build Walls and Border-stations 360 degrees around the nation, put guns in them, put men on guns.
    Step 2: Switch armed forces to Defense, at home and in Allied nations only.
    Step 3: Set up the BIG, big guns.
    Step 4: ???????
    Step 5. Profit!


    Trade for what we need, sell what others want, be as self sufficient as possible, and **** everyone but our closest allies.
    The Chinese tried this a few years back; but they were lacking the "big guns".
    Allies?
    Do we really have any allies?
    Do we have any history books?

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I'm not so sure we have added to the 'greater good of the world' since WWII. Vietnam was a disaster, Korea is still unresolved, and Iraq and Afghanistan were made worse by our interference. I'm not an isolationist in the economic sense, but I certainly favor the non-interventionist foreign policy that we had before WWII. I suppose I would have supported stopping Hitler sooner, but not if it led to the preventative wars of the Bush Doctrine. And I don't understand why it is our duty to defend South Korea or Israel or any other nation. If they ask the UN for help like Kuwait did that is one thing, but to keep 30,000 troops in Korea for 60 years is too much.
    I think we have added to the greater good of the the world; if we had used our heads, we could have added much more.
    The Vietnam War was a disaster, I agree.
    Korea is very much resolved, the Orientals do have much more patience, its a matter of more time until their "Berlin Wall" falls and N. Korea joins E Germany in man's scrap-pile of failed ideas...
    Iraq, less Saddam Huissan, cannot be worse...In this case, the Islamics must grow up and accept what they do not like...
    The so-called UN should be playing a larger role, what that not their original purpose?

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    According to Thomas Barnett, we should split the military into a combat force (for first half) and a "SysAdmin" force for second half reconstruction/regime change/counterinsurgency work. If we set our minds to it, we will get quite competent, more so than we are today and we are doing pretty good.
    In my view, we have no business in regime change of any country unless we are attacked by a country. What we have been doing in the ME is trying to spread our form of democracy, and in my estimation, it will only have a semblance of success while we are still there. Culturally, many people in that region of the world probably aren't capable of managing it without our presence.
    That being said, I have no problem with special ops and intelligence being used to take out legitimate terrorist targets, but I object to nation-building and trying to spread our idea of what government should be. I don't think anyone who isn't capable and willing to fight for their own democracy is ready for it.

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