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Thread: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Better watch it there. Those sorts of comments draw out the "you're blaming America!!??" crowd, no matter how much truth is contained therein.
    The problem isn't that one's suggesting that "blowback" contributed to the terrorist attack. That is not an unreasonable suggestion. Policies can provoke favorable and unfavorable reactions. Of course, foreign policy of any state must consider tradeoffs. Foreign policy is not, and cannot be risk-free, as the world is not risk-free.

    The problem lies with the argument that "blowback" was solely or almost completely responsible for the outcome. The latter argument--Ron Paul's, the argument from the isolationist perspective, etc.--is naive and inaccurate. It ignores Al Qaeda's nature as a revolutionary movement, its ideology and its objectives. Yet, Al Qaeda's nature, ideology and objectives run well beyond avenging that terrorist organization's expressed grievances (actual or perceptual) concerning U.S. policy. Indeed, if that were not the case, then Osama Bin Laden would never have included rationalizations that ran far afield of U.S. foreign policy in his "Letter to America," much less demanded that the U.S. ultimately convert to Islam (his radical interpretation, of course).

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Standard leftist pablum that got us mired down in Somalia. "We should only interfere when the UN tells us to."

    Yeah, that worked well. I'm more in favor of pulling back inside our own borders, letting Europe handle/pay for their own defense, letting Africa go to hell in a handbasket, letting the middle east blow themselves sky high, and paying off our debts to China so we don't have that hanging over our heads. Protect our borders, take care of our people, let the rest of the world handle their own business.
    Africa is Europe's problem. How come they get to go create a mess of almost an entire continent, and get to leave and act like nothing happened?

  3. #43
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I'm not so sure we have added to the 'greater good of the world' since WWII. Vietnam was a disaster, Korea is still unresolved, and Iraq and Afghanistan were made worse by our interference. I'm not an isolationist in the economic sense, but I certainly favor the non-interventionist foreign policy that we had before WWII. I suppose I would have supported stopping Hitler sooner, but not if it led to the preventative wars of the Bush Doctrine. And I don't understand why it is our duty to defend South Korea or Israel or any other nation. If they ask the UN for help like Kuwait did that is one thing, but to keep 30,000 troops in Korea for 60 years is too much.
    I think we contributed to the greater good by defending many countries (such as S. Korea) from being put under a dictatorship, and not to mention we helped protect Western Europe from falling to the USSR.

    Even though I disagree with the War in Iraq because I don't think its costs justified its results, I think it is fairly clear that we have made Iraq a better place. We also need to look in the long run, when Iraq is slowly but surely progressing. I think that Afganistan will be made better by our interference if we put in the effort, so the benefit is variable.

    Unfortuantly, global trade normally needs a hegemony, so I think there is more good then bad from having soldiers in South Korea or other nations. I think that I have seen that extra active soldiers doesn't cost quite too much more by having them in other countries then our own. I don't like alot of our protection of Israel though, but the question if we should protect a nation should be on a case by case basis, and not a sweeping statement.

    And when it comes to Hitler, the war could have been easier if we had already had a defensive pact with Europe. So today, that would mean keeping NATO, which is still a fair amount of intervention protecting other nations.
    Last edited by nerv14; 12-04-09 at 01:01 PM.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    The best defense is a good offense, Lizzie.
    Run a bad offense, however, and you lose the game. I'd say that's the position we are currently in.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Yet, Al Qaeda's nature, ideology and objectives run well beyond avenging that terrorist organization's expressed grievances (actual or perceptual) concerning U.S. policy. Indeed, if that were not the case, then Osama Bin Laden would never have included rationalizations that ran far afield of U.S. foreign policy in his "Letter to America," much less demanded that the U.S. ultimately convert to Islam (his radical interpretation, of course).
    On the other hand, the U.S.'s interventionism in the middle east fed local sympathies against the U.S. It's questionable how successful their recruiting would have been without our ineptitude feeding it.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    The best defense is a defense that can crush all other offenses. It's easier to break an attack and retaliate than it is to have your attack broken and do a fighting retreat.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Africa is Europe's problem. How come they get to go create a mess of almost an entire continent, and get to leave and act like nothing happened?
    Not to mention the middle east and southeast Asia.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Not to mention the middle east and southeast Asia.
    It's too late to blame that on them, we've already been involved in ruining **** there.


    Africa is SOLELY European colonialism's problem. They purposefully drew country lines to conflict with tribal bands and caused all this upheaval. Not to mention Africa now is almost at the same stage of cultural and societal progress as Africa 2000 years ago (mainly because the White man brought it to them.)

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    It's too late to blame that on them, we've already been involved in ruining **** there.


    Africa is SOLELY European colonialism's problem. They purposefully drew country lines to conflict with tribal bands and caused all this upheaval. Not to mention Africa now is almost at the same stage of cultural and societal progress as Africa 2000 years ago (mainly because the White man brought it to them.)
    Yes, but who ****ed up Vietnam originally? Hint, it wasn't US.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Yes, but who ****ed up Vietnam originally? Hint, it wasn't US.
    C'mon the French got kicked out by the Vietnamese...I would say the Commies ruined it

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