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Thread: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    I would like to think this is true, but just allow one attack, here or elsewhere, and we will be right back in the lead.

    However, if this does indeed catch on, this would be wonderful for this country, we really need to focus on our debt, our falling dollar, and our own major problems, as they are many!
    Last edited by Jackboot; 12-04-09 at 11:17 PM.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I don't think you're going back far enough. We were messing around in Afghanistan before Al Qaeda or the Taliban ever existed. Just like in Iraq, we gave arms and funds to some of the same people who ended up attacking us later.
    You mean we gave arms and funds to people opposed to the Soviet invasion of their homeland. That some mercenaries were also beneficiaries of our largess is irrelevant. The intent and actual outcome was to bleed the Soviets heavily.

    If we'd allowed Gorbachev, Nobel Peace Prize Winner, to succeed in taking Afghanistan, his troops on the Iranian souther border would have dangerously altered the fragile balance of power in the Middle East.

    The US stopped the Soviet takeover of Afghanistan and thereby dealt a fatal blow to the Soviet Union.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
    I disagree. The Taliban may have been considered a government, but the Taliban didn't attack us.
    Wrong.

    The Taliban appointed Osama bin Laden as their Commander in Chief of all Taliban armed forces one month before September 11, 2001. His act of war was the Taliban's act of war, which means it was Afghanistan's act of war.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    That doesn't mean I'm not interested in the rest of the world. It's just that I think that America, politically, should be more like Switzerland.
    The Swiss government is trying really really hard to change that.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    "conservative" says it all
    This "liberal", in order to refute these arguments says, that isolation never has worked in the past and will not work in the future.
    Our nation must learn to respect others, as difficult as this may be.
    We didn't try it when we most needed it.

    Wilson should have minded our business, not England's, and then there wouldn't have been a WWII.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A survey taken by the Pew Research center for the People & the Press revealed that a growing number of Americans are favor the United States' disengaging from international affairs. The Associated Press reported:



    The Associated Press: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    The entire report can be found at: http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/569.pdf
    The U.S. is practically the founder of modern neo-liberalism and is at the helm of practically all global governance enterprises: the UN, the WHO, the WTO, the IMF, etc. The political and financial elites want globalization to go ahead as much as possible. The U.S. will never return to isolationism unless it suffers a full collapse... the people in power and behind the scenes will never allow it.

    We may see a bit of a retraction in the coming decade to compensate for domestic issues, but that will by no means bring complete isolation. Those days have gone bye bye.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Why should we do it when a foreign government subjugates its people? What particular aspects of doing so do you believe would make it in our interests?
    We should do it when it's to our advantage to do it, and only when it's to our advantage. Since the enemy nation seized it's power by force and not by the will of the people, they have no natural claim to rule and can be replaced by anyone weilding more effective force in opposition.

    The great virtue of the United States is that we don't want to own those ****holes, and in both Iraq and Afghanland our goals have always been to establish a native democratic republic. Iraq had the background to make it reasonably successful fairly soon. Afghanland is a tougher nut, but who's to say it's impossible?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Why should we spread democracy?
    Because democratic nations that retain their democratic freedoms are much more likely to trade goods with the world, not artillery shells.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    And it is my belief that the people should do their own regime change when they have the cultural capacity for it.
    And if it wasn't for the Russians and the Americans, how would Germany have gotten rid of the Nazis? If it wasn't for GW Bush, how were the Iraqi's going to get rid of Saddam Hussein? If it wasn't for Reagan, how was Eastern Europe going to get rid of Gorbachev?

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It appears we stand almost directly opposite each other. Fair enough.
    Oh, I like debating with you, lizzie!! No flailing about trying to change each others minds. Just a matter of fact exchange about what we believe, and then a shrug since we aren't seeing eye to eye on this. I love it!

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I disagree with a few of your points.

    First, it is our business to do regime change. Not everywhere. Not all at once. In my view, it is justified when a government subjugates its people. We should only do it when it is in our interests.

    Second, I don't think we are spreading our form of democracy. We are spreading democracy and they are determining what that looks like. The Iraqi form of democracy looks nothing like ours.

    Third, we should only do regime change when the people have the cultural capacity for it.

    Fourth, democracy is universal and with enough literacy, anyone can have a democracy.

    Finally, they do fight for a democracy, once we have gone in and removed the boot of the dictatorship that was subjugating them. It is not easy what they are building in Iraq.
    It should be up to them to decide when regime change is justified, what type of goverment they want (whether it be democracy or otherwise), and up to them to overthrow their own government. It says this in the Declaration of Independence:
    That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
    Last edited by Tsunami; 12-05-09 at 07:10 AM.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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    Re: Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It's called "winning the Cold War".

    Look it up.

    If we'd lost, the USSR, with it's gulags and opression, would have been the model for the future.
    I can't believe people still follow that ideology. This line of thinking right here has caused the biggest problems in the world for most of the last 60 years. This was the reasoning for our intervention in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Cuba, and many other places. Intervention that in almost every case resulted in total disaster. Meanwhile, Communism doesn't work and the Soviet Union would have collapsed on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Wrong.

    The Taliban appointed Osama bin Laden as their Commander in Chief of all Taliban armed forces one month before September 11, 2001. His act of war was the Taliban's act of war, which means it was Afghanistan's act of war.
    I'm sorry, I need to see a link supporting this or I call
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

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