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Thread: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #441
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You ARE permitted to name your one irreplaceable person in this world based on your devotion and dedication to that one person.
    So are you. It's called a power of attorney.

    Marriage, as it stands today, is a contract between two people who name one another irreplaceable to each other and so united that the law treats them as one.
    Really? Marriage as it stands today in the majority of states isn't defined as you've put it above, the federal DOMA is still law, many states have amended their Constitutions defining marriage to one man and one woman, where is this "two people naming the other irreplaceable" nonsense coming from, did you make that up? Cause, that's not the definition of marriage and we both know it.

    The rights most certainly are NOT afforded equally despite the mindless repetition of that grossly over simplified statement above.
    It isn't oversimplified, it's accurate. Two men or two women entering any city aren't going to be asked about orientation. Aren't going to be asked about children. They're going to be denied based on gender. Period. As far as the law is concerned the discrimination is based on gender, perhaps have your gay rights leadership focus on that fact, the 0-31 record in referendum proves the 'gay rights' argument isn't flying.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But you can't mix analogies together! It's not about blacks and whites marrying!

    Let's try again - a black man goes to a prestigious university and is denied entry on the basis of race. Is that okay?
    No.

    Neither would it be ok if he were whining about being denied if this prestigious university was an all female university.

    Let's try again. If the black man returned from this entry into an all female college endeavor with a denial form and crying racism, would you believe in a kneejerk manner that it was the color of his skin that denied him?

    Those are called crocodile tears and so are the emotional based arguments for same sex marriage.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The same rights.
    They didn't want "marriage" as a term?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And the word cannot be seperated from the rights when you get down to it.
    Yes it very well can. Ask Misterman about words and their definitions They can be changed, altered, or have different meanings pertaining to different situations. Do I think that's right? not really...

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If a new word were applied to the same rights, all kinds of openings would be left for legal wrangling by those who opposed the rights to begin with with. There would be challenge after challenge to any of those rights enumerated as being the same because you have an element in this society that believes their moral convictions should be codefied into legally encouraged social ethics and norms.
    And everyone knows how desperate and dickish they are. After prohibition, you'd be hard pressed to see another moral crowd push their agenda in whole on the Nation. Homosexuals will have their day, and most likely it will be soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You cannot give these people an inch and trust that they will be satisfied. Today it is a battle for the word but if conceded, tomorrow it will be a battle for the institution again. This element in society espouses equality but they firmly believe that their beliefs are a little more equal.
    You have to take what you can get first, and then go for broke. I'm sorry that's how you feel, but if the Homosexual community wants the rights that they would deserve, that is a union like marriage, with rights the same as marriage, they're going to have to be patient and get crafty.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    So are you. It's called a power of attorney.
    Wrong answer.

    There are MANY legal rights that only married couples have that cannot be accomplished any other way. And those that can be can cost thousands in lawyer's fees.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Yes it very well can. Ask Misterman about words and their definitions They can be changed, altered, or have different meanings pertaining to different situations. Do I think that's right? not really...
    I didn't say that.

    But people can disagree on the definitions of words. And they can change over time, or have more than one definition. This is a basic principle of language.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Wrong answer.

    There are MANY legal rights that only married couples have that cannot be accomplished any other way. And those that can be can cost thousands in lawyer's fees.
    Can't anyone get Power of Attorney so long as YOU give it to them?

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I didn't say that.

    But people can disagree on the definitions of words. And they can change over time, or have more than one definition. This is a basic principle of language.
    It was a joke

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    What did the Homosexual community want in California? A word or the same rights?
    The same rights.
    Frankly Jallman I think you need to thank the anti-gm people who were so foolish as to support domestic partnership, because without them there would be no "separate but equal" construct for gays to now challenge in court and win the war on.

    Thanks to people like Navy Pride, you will one day have gay marriage. I hope you will at least send him an invitation
    Last edited by Jerry; 12-08-09 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    So are you. It's called a power of attorney.
    No. Power of attorney does not grant all the same rights as a marriage. Snarky as ever and still just as lazy in your analysis.

    Really?
    Yes, really.

    Marriage as it stands today in the majority of states isn't defined as you've put it above,
    It is defined EXACTLY as I stated it and has been since that exact language was used in Perez v Sharp in 1948.

    the federal DOMA is still law,
    So? Laws get overturned. Especially when they are proven to violate equality.

    many states have amended their Constitutions defining marriage to one man and one woman, where is this "two people naming the other irreplaceable" nonsense coming from, did you make that up? Cause, that's not the definition of marriage and we both know it.
    Why don't you familiarize yourself with the list of over 1400 rights granted by marriage and the body of case law that has contributed to marriage and then see if you can't give me a definition of marriage that suits you?

    One thing is for certain, the language stating that two people name each other as irreplaceable will surface over and over again.

    But you were depthless and lazy in your mindless parroting of a trite sound byte as an analysis before so I don't really expect you to educate yourself any further.

    It isn't oversimplified,
    It is grossly simplified.

    it's accurate.
    No, it is precise but it is not accurate.

    Two men or two women entering any city aren't going to be asked about orientation. Aren't going to be asked about children. They're going to be denied based on gender. Period. As far as the law is concerned the discrimination is based on gender, perhaps have your gay rights leadership focus on that fact, the 0-31 record in referendum proves the 'gay rights' argument isn't flying.
    No, what has happened is that the debate continually gets focused on a plethora of lies and red herrings as shown in California. And what does entering a city have to do with this debate? We are talking about marriage law, not freedom of travel. Are you having a hard time keeping up?

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Can't anyone get Power of Attorney so long as YOU give it to them?
    I think so. But like I said, there are many privileges that only married couples have that power of attorney or other legal arrangement cannot replicate. And of those that can, some require much more than that.

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