Page 26 of 80 FirstFirst ... 1624252627283676 ... LastLast
Results 251 to 260 of 791

Thread: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #251
    Hippie Hater
    texmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dallas TEXAS
    Last Seen
    08-20-15 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    There are more than moral reasons for not allowing underage people to get married. Our legal system has decreed that until the age of 18, a person may not enter into a legal contract. And it's not just marriage, it's any legal contract. If you want to argue that that age should be lowered, then that's fine. As things stand now though, that's the only reason needed for not allowing people under 18 to get married.
    You still did not give a reason why we chose that age other than it was a moral choice.

    Honestly, I have no problems at all with polygamy. If 5 people want to enter into a joint marriage, that's fine by me. Some of the laws regarding marriage rights and benefits would probably need to be reworked to take into account multiple partners, but I don't think that it would cause any huge problems.
    I don't agree at all but I respect your honesty in that statement.

    This is true. However, you have to keep in mind that there are valid reasons for not allowing certain marriages that aren't moral judgments. In two of the most common cases mentioned (people marrying underage and people marrying animals) the reason for not allowing them is because animals and underage people are not allowed to enter into a legal contract.
    But again you miss the point. You are falling back on another law to justify another. Putting animals aside, Children can have jobs which some require them signing legal contracts so that argument in preventing them wont work. Children make personal choices all the time.

    It again comes back to a moral decision that society made.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  2. #252
    Hippie Hater
    texmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dallas TEXAS
    Last Seen
    08-20-15 @ 01:17 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    3,969

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Where do you see a relationship between slavery and gay marriage being formed?
    From your post when you argue against people who are against gay marriage

    First of all, the 14th Amendment came well after them. And a lot has changed since their time. White people don't have a few blacks that they own running their errands for them anymore. We have automobiles and electricity and quick transferrence of information on a global scale. We have antibiotics and space travel, an understanding of psychology and genetics.

    Shall we continue listing all these game changers?


    Thats the argument you used.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  3. #253
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    From your post when you argue against people who are against gay marriage

    First of all, the 14th Amendment came well after them. And a lot has changed since their time. White people don't have a few blacks that they own running their errands for them anymore. We have automobiles and electricity and quick transferrence of information on a global scale. We have antibiotics and space travel, an understanding of psychology and genetics.

    Shall we continue listing all these game changers?


    Thats the argument you used.
    And where in any of that do your see a similarity being drawn between gay marriage and slavery?

  4. #254
    Sage
    Dav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    04-16-16 @ 02:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,539

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    they fixed it.......now it's time to recognize that gays should be allowed to marry.
    Read the 2nd sentence of my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well first of all, it's now accepted that homosexuality doesn't come from disease, mental defect, or devils possessing a person.
    It's not as accepted as you might think, and there's still a lot of uncertainty about it.

    Also, being a homo isn't punishable by stoning or burning at the stake anymore. Sort of dropped that practice along with whipping "niggers" that talk back.
    I'm not sure that was ever true. But yes, homosexuality itself isn't illegal anymore. Don't see how that changes how the 14th Amendment applies to gay marriage, though.

  5. #255
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It's not as accepted as you might think, and there's still a lot of uncertainty about it.
    I think you'd be hard pressed to find 10 people randomly sampled that believe demons make people into homos.

    I'm not sure that was ever true.
    Really? Technically, sodomy is still punishable by imprisonment in Texas. In Maine, it was punishable by hanging until the late 1800's. It wasn't stricken off the books in Virginia until the 80's.

    Some of the old laws on the book are worth a read just for the entertainment factor.

    But yes, homosexuality itself isn't illegal anymore. Don't see how that changes how the 14th Amendment applies to gay marriage, though.
    Then you are being pointedly obtuse. If it was an illegal practice before and now there is nothing illegal about it, the logical progression is a discussion about whether or not the government should be discriminating in it's approval of different relationships. Further, with more and more evidence proving it's not really a choice, the same questions that were raised with any "group" are being raised with gays: what level of discrimination and separate treatment is acceptable under the US Constitution.

    The answer with every other group has been a resounding "none".

  6. #256
    Sage
    jackalope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    08-08-14 @ 01:54 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,494

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    That did occur to many of them. ESPECIALLY the one who wrote the 14th amendment.

    Our founders did not write the fourteenth amendment; the fourteenth amendment was not part of the Bill of Rights, but rather was passed after the Civil War, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion"]in 1868[/ame].


    There is no replacing 'the Constitution' with 'the Fourteenth Amendment'. The Fourteenth Amendment is part of the Constitution.
    Last edited by jackalope; 12-04-09 at 05:59 PM. Reason: link

  7. #257
    Sage
    Dav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    04-16-16 @ 02:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,539

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I think you'd be hard pressed to find 10 people randomly sampled that believe demons make people into homos.
    Demons no. Mental defect and personal choice, yes.
    And when I said there's still a lot of uncertainty about it, I meant the source of homosexuality in general.

    Really? Technically, sodomy is still punishable by imprisonment in Texas. In Maine, it was punishable by hanging until the late 1800's. It wasn't stricken off the books in Virginia until the 80's.

    Some of the old laws on the book are worth a read just for the entertainment factor.
    I stand corrected.

    Then you are being pointedly obtuse. If it was an illegal practice before and now there is nothing illegal about it, the logical progression is a discussion about whether or not the government should be discriminating in it's approval of different relationships.
    There is a difference, though, between the government banning homosexual sex and the government granting marriage to two people of the same sex. Especially when the former doesn't change the definition of a practice that has existed for thousands of years.

    Further, with more and more evidence proving it's not really a choice, the same questions that were raised with any "group" are being raised with gays: what level of discrimination and separate treatment is acceptable under the US Constitution.

    The answer with every other group has been a resounding "none".
    As I have said before, current marriage laws don't discriminate against gays. Most people just consider marriage by definition to be between a man and a woman, as it has always been defined. That definition makes a distinction based on gender, but neither gender is being presented as the victim here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    Our founders did not write the fourteenth amendment; the fourteenth amendment was not part of the Bill of Rights, but rather was passed after the Civil War, in 1868.


    There is no replacing 'the Constitution' with 'the Fourteenth Amendment'. The Fourteenth Amendment is part of the Constitution.

    I know all of this. I included whoever wrote the Fourteenth Amendment as one of the people who wrote the Constitution because he wrote part of the Constitution. The fact that he did it later isn't relevant, since he still wrote it in a time where gay marriage wasn't even considered.

  8. #258
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,053

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    for the same reason it never occured to them that blacks should be considered equal.
    Absolutely wrong. Adams was anti-slavery then and questioned the Christianity in treating blacks as they were. Even Jefferson, who had slaves his entire life, was openly conflicted about the inequality of blacks.

    But in a new country at that time, slavery was the only economically viable way to build a country. England certainly did nothing to stop it in the colonies beforehand.

  9. #259
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:45 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,053

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I dont believe it was even an idea that was addressed back then. I hardly think they had any opinion on it at all because it just wasn't a discussion to them.
    Some things you just can't anticipate. Who then could have ever thought their descendants 15 generations later would concoct such a think as two men marrying each other.

  10. #260
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Some things you just can't anticipate. Who then could have ever thought their descendants 15 generations later would concoct such a think as two men marrying each other.
    I imagine when you stop believing things like witches sitting on babies' chests and sucking the life out of them is the cause of crib death, it opens all manner of possibilities for enlightenment.

Page 26 of 80 FirstFirst ... 1624252627283676 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •