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Thread: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

  1. #231
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    My assertion it true, as you agree, above.

    Now, you -may- be correct in that the state cannot deny privilieges to some without granting them to all -- which is debateable and depends on a great many things -- but the fact is, the state is -still- granting a privilege.

    The RIGHT found here is not the right to marry, but the right to equal protection.
    Jeebus Christ the sky is going to fall.

    We actually agree on something.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I used to believe that, but I no longer do. As long as the institution is separated out, even just by name, it is going to be a point of contention. I do not believe for one minute that NARTH or Focus on the Family or any of these other family advocacy groups would stop at a separate but equal institution. But if the institution is the exact same, I highly doubt the would be inclined to screw with it for fear of screwing themselves over in the process.
    Point of contention or not, we're adults. Defining our happiness with words should not be more important than getting what we need or desire from said ceremony. I don't care one way or the other, so long as everyone gets what they're entitled to. Is it easy to determine? No. But can people stop being whiney bitches and give a little to get a little? Yes. Very much so. And the States would be a happier place to live if we all just learned to give a little. It's hard for me to see because even most conflict for me is water off a duck's back. I don't give a **** if it's not going to kill me, hurt me, or screw me financially.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Jeebus Christ the sky is going to fall.

    We actually agree on something.
    We've actually agreed on several things.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Point of contention or not, we're adults. Defining our happiness with words should not be more important than getting what we need or desire from said ceremony. I don't care one way or the other, so long as everyone gets what they're entitled to. Is it easy to determine? No. But can people stop being whiney bitches and give a little to get a little? Yes. Very much so. And the States would be a happier place to live if we all just learned to give a little. It's hard for me to see because even most conflict for me is water off a duck's back. I don't give a **** if it's not going to kill me, hurt me, or screw me financially.
    It's not just about the word. It's about the legal openings that will be left in the wake of another attempt at "separate but equal".

    I don't really care one way or another about the word either. They call it "buttbuddy unions" for all I care except for the fact that the legal distinction between two institutions will leave the possibility of bigoted groups like Narth to continue raising challenge after challenge of the rights and privileges individually within the institution.

    Take for instance adoption: they will be able to challenge adoption access for the gay marriage institution while leaving it alone in the straight marriage institution. If it is legally the same for both right down to the name, challenges such as this would be much less likely for fear of messing with their own access, too.

  5. #235
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's not just about the word. It's about the legal openings that will be left in the wake of another attempt at "separate but equal".

    I don't really care one way or another about the word either. They call it "buttbuddy unions" for all I care except for the fact that the legal distinction between two institutions will leave the possibility of bigoted groups like Narth to continue raising challenge after challenge of the rights and privileges individually within the institution.

    Take for instance adoption: they will be able to challenge adoption access for the gay marriage institution while leaving it alone in the straight marriage institution. If it is legally the same for both right down to the name, challenges such as this would be much less likely for fear of messing with their own access, too.
    The Constitutional Argument for Same-Sex Marriage - News- msnbc.com

    Among those who voted against the bill was Senator Hiram Monserrate, a heterosexual accused of battering his girlfriend with a broken glass. He was convicted of committing a misdemeanor assault.

    Although Monserrate’s record can hardly inspire confidence in his ability to make sound judgments on human relationships, you can feel empathy for many others on both sides of the issue. They bared family secrets. They disclosed some of their deepest feelings in this historic debate.

    Yet, ultimately, it seems clear, the issue of gay marriage has to be decided on the basis of our Constitution, our laws and the very essence of our nation’s history.

    The Declaration of Independence says that we are all created equal, endowed by our Creator “with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    ” Does the “pursuit of happiness,” as expressed in the Declaration, justify same sex marriage?

    The equal protection clause of the Constitution, embodied in the 14th Amendment provides that “no state shall…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” --does that justify same sex marriage?

    The issue is difficult but the solution ultimately must come from the remarkable documents that our founding fathers created more than two centuries ago.

    In an uncanny way, these patriots of yesterday seemed to anticipate the most difficult issues of today. We can hope that their words will continue to guide us and inspire us -- and give us solutions to our most vexing problems.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #236
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    The Constitutional Argument for Same-Sex Marriage - News- msnbc.com

    Among those who voted against the bill was Senator Hiram Monserrate, a heterosexual accused of battering his girlfriend with a broken glass. He was convicted of committing a misdemeanor assault.

    Although Monserrate’s record can hardly inspire confidence in his ability to make sound judgments on human relationships, you can feel empathy for many others on both sides of the issue. They bared family secrets. They disclosed some of their deepest feelings in this historic debate.

    Yet, ultimately, it seems clear, the issue of gay marriage has to be decided on the basis of our Constitution, our laws and the very essence of our nation’s history.

    The Declaration of Independence says that we are all created equal, endowed by our Creator “with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    ” Does the “pursuit of happiness,” as expressed in the Declaration, justify same sex marriage?

    The equal protection clause of the Constitution, embodied in the 14th Amendment provides that “no state shall…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” --does that justify same sex marriage?

    The issue is difficult but the solution ultimately must come from the remarkable documents that our founding fathers created more than two centuries ago.

    In an uncanny way, these patriots of yesterday seemed to anticipate the most difficult issues of today. We can hope that their words will continue to guide us and inspire us -- and give us solutions to our most vexing problems.
    Our founding fathers were all against gay marriage. Everyone back then was.

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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Our founding fathers were all against gay marriage. Everyone back then was.
    ;-) good one.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Our founding fathers were all against gay marriage. Everyone back then was.
    I dont believe it was even an idea that was addressed back then. I hardly think they had any opinion on it at all because it just wasn't a discussion to them.

  9. #239
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I dont believe it was even an idea that was addressed back then. I hardly think they had any opinion on it at all because it just wasn't a discussion to them.
    So what changed?


    I mean if today's marriage laws violate the Constitution, how come the people who wrote the Constitution didn't realize that?

  10. #240
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    Re: New York State Senate Votes Down Gay Marriage Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So what changed?


    I mean if today's marriage laws violate the Constitution, how come the people who wrote the Constitution didn't realize that?

    Cuz they didn't write the 14th Amendment, and the 'due process' clause?

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