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Thread: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Waxman
    Waxman urged policymakers in both parties to look into how they can support new legal or tax structures for media organizations, foster more philanthropic support, explore new sources of journalism, and consider more public funding for quality journalism, among other issues.
    Stepping from the scary "government must be involved" scenerio into what is meant by government's role is highlighted above.

    The concern is that you need quality journalism to exist for a democracy to be vibrant. A good example of that is media outlets like C-Span, NPR and news on public television. C-Span is nonprofit. NPR and Public Televsion originated with government funding and is by far superior to any other traditional media outlets in the US. Newspapers have been an excellent source of quality news because it allows an issue to be explored in depth and not just in a sound bite. If these types of organizations fail and you're left with nothing more than large profit news, the democracy DOES suffer.

    I think if you compare how society is changed, there is far more entertainment options to compete for people's time. That lowers the demand for quality news and starts making news services unable to maintain profitability. But if these services fail, are there enough quality options still available? I would say that the majority of society is apoliitical compared to most of you who post here. This failing demand can effect the quality of news reporting.

    Really, Waxman's suggestions are not that unreasonable. Read them carefully. Government is in charge to determine tax laws-not unusual. The concept of media outlets being funded as non-profits is an interesting concept and not unlike C-Span which provides high quality,, direct to the source, hard news with little fluff (not really entertaining at all, but extremely informative, we're not talking Rush Limbaugh vs Ed Schultz here or the cliff notes version of political news). Exploring new outlets goes into whether or not we do need to move away from the old sources of news or expand the media being offered. An example of this is my public radio outlet no longer calls itself public radio but "public media" which reflects internet reporting, blogs and podcasts as part of their services.

    I don't know if my explanation can move you away from the scary government concept, but what Waxman is talking about is already here.

    (PS-most newspapers are conservative. I've seen studies before on this and I'm sure you'll find them if you look. Of course you're free to do the usual "all media are liberals" routine, but I ask you to look at little deeper on this if you want the reality of that industry.)
    Last edited by Ziggae_6; 12-04-09 at 09:38 AM.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Obvious Child loves to decry partisan hackery, yet this thread proves what a partisan hack OC is at heart.

    Newspapers and other Journalism business will have to adapt to the changes, or fail. Having the Government subsidize them is about the worst possible solution one can imagine.
    I would say it directly opposes the 1st Amendment.
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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Stepping from the scary "government must be involved" scenerio into what is meant by government's role is highlighted above.

    The concern is that you need quality journalism to exist for a democracy to be vibrant. A good example of that is media outlets like C-Span, NPR and news on public television. C-Span is nonprofit. NPR and Public Televsion originated with government funding and is by far superior to any other traditional media outlets in the US. Newspapers have been an excellent source of quality news because it allows an issue to be explored in depth and not just in a sound bite. If these types of organizations fail and you're left with nothing more than large profit news, the democracy DOES suffer.

    I think if you compare how society is changed, there is far more entertainment options to compete for people's time. That lowers the demand for quality news and starts making news services unable to maintain profitability. But if these services fail, are there enough quality options still available? I would say that the majority of society is apoliitical compared to most of you who post here. This failing demand can effect the quality of news reporting.

    Really, Waxman's suggestions are not that unreasonable. Read them carefully. Government is in charge to determine tax laws-not unusual. The concept of media outlets being funded as non-profits is an interesting concept and not unlike C-Span which provides high quality,, direct to the source, hard news with little fluff (not really entertaining at all, but extremely informative, we're not talking Rush Limbaugh vs Ed Schultz here or the cliff notes version of political news). Exploring new outlets goes into whether or not we do need to move away from the old sources of news or expand the media being offered. An example of this is my public radio outlet no longer calls itself public radio but "public media" which reflects internet reporting, blogs and podcasts as part of their services.

    I don't know if my explanation can move you away from the scary government concept, but what Waxman is talking about is already here.

    (PS-most newspapers are conservative. I've seen studies before on this and I'm sure you'll find them if you look. Of course you're free to do the usual "all media are liberals" routine, but I ask you to look at little deeper on this if you want the reality of that industry.)
    Yes, they are very VERY unreasonable.

    And here's why. A free, independent media must exist on it's own merit, with no financial strings attached courtesy of the Government.

    Why is it Liberals are so unable to accept that businesses from time to time, fail because they have outlived their ability to be profitable? What, do you people think that there are only X amount of Businesses, and if we don't save them that industry will cease to exist?

    Why are "Progressives" so afraid of change, and so desperate to keep the status quo?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yes, they are very VERY unreasonable.

    And here's why. A free, independent media must exist on it's own merit, with no financial strings attached courtesy of the Government.

    Why is it Liberals are so unable to accept that businesses from time to time, fail because they have outlived their ability to be profitable? What, do you people think that there are only X amount of Businesses, and if we don't save them that industry will cease to exist?

    Why are "Progressives" so afraid of change, and so desperate to keep the status quo?

    You missing a couple of major points. Simply existing does not by itself reflect the quality of a product. CNN or FOX exist because they provide enough soundbites that people can tune in and out which reflect the hectic pace of life and people's lowered time to invest in quality news. A quality news product may not be able to exist in comparison to fluff quick news. (Think of a quality restaurant with few patrons compared to McDonald's quick in and out eating).

    The current setup of newspapers may be doomed to fail and that is what is why he suggests exploring newer options of news. The problem here is not so much losing newspapers, but losing the quality of the type of news that newspapers offer to a Democracy.. That is, newspapers give a more in depth view of an issue presented beyond the soundbyte. But if you lose those organization that produce news, what appears in their place? Quality news or McDonald's news? An educated electorate is extremely important to the vibrancy of a Democracy. Isn't part of the Conservative argument against Obama's election is that people are uninformed and made a bad decision? Isn't that an important issue that we should be concerned about?

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    .

    A free, independent media must exist on it's own merit, with no financial strings attached courtesy of the Government.
    Side issue: Can this ever really exist? All tradition media has owners and doesn't that mean that "free, independent" news is free in what the ownership decides to report.

    So you have fear of government control, but don't we also have to fear corporate control of free and independent information? The business model does not guarantee free and independent news. Only that it is profitable.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Side issue: Can this ever really exist? All tradition media has owners and doesn't that mean that "free, independent" news is free in what the ownership decides to report.

    So you have fear of government control, but don't we also have to fear corporate control of free and independent information? The business model does not guarantee free and independent news. Only that it is profitable.

    Ofcourse journalism can exist, and be profitable. Since news papers rely on advertising more so than subscriptions, then it is an adherence to basic journalistic principles that will win the day in that regard, delivering the most readers, and thus the widest audience to advertisers for potential customers.

    News papers like the NYTimes, and alike have been largely responsible for their own demise in recent times. It used to be that reporting the news was left to the meat and potatoes of the paper, and the Op-Ed pages was where you could find the ideological bent of the editorial staff. That seems to disappear during conservative presidencies. What we are left with in journalism are people that graduate with an eye toward 'changing the world' instead of what should be the goal, reporting the facts.

    People are smarter than the liberal elites give them credit for, and see right through the BS delivered in the daily bird cage liner. You mentioned NPR, and C-SPAN in your comments above, both which are operated totally by taxpayer dollars, and other funding like the Carnegie Foundation. While sans Washington Journal, C-Span offers an unbiased look only when it simply turns the cameras on in congress and steps back. Other than that they have a leaning that is clear. NPR is just blatant. Arguably one of the most left leaning sources of News available. But neither are papers are they? And since our discussion is on that I will defer to the topic at hand.

    Government control will not rid the papers of voices on the right like is the hope of liberals, it will only force a hand of open deceit like is found in Venezuela.


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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Side issue: Can this ever really exist? All tradition media has owners and doesn't that mean that "free, independent" news is free in what the ownership decides to report.

    So you have fear of government control, but don't we also have to fear corporate control of free and independent information? The business model does not guarantee free and independent news. Only that it is profitable.
    You have no clue what I am talking about when I saw free do you?

    I don't care about Corporate ownership of a news organization. Do you know why? If say the American Morning News owned by Mega Corp. puts out an inferior product, in this case news... it will lose circulation, and eventually become a liability to Mega Corp. Who will be forced to either eat the loss, or sell off the paper (or just shut it down).

    If Government owns/pays for a newspaper to stay afloat, not only will they not have to put out a solid product, not only will they continue to be a drain on the tax payer, it will ensure the reporting be subpar and very likely to NOT be too critical of those in Washington keeping it running.


    You obviously, like OC above, have no concept of Free Enterprise nor do you appreciate the power of the markets.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Side issue: Can this ever really exist? All tradition media has owners and doesn't that mean that "free, independent" news is free in what the ownership decides to report.

    So you have fear of government control, but don't we also have to fear corporate control of free and independent information? The business model does not guarantee free and independent news. Only that it is profitable.
    So what you're saying is that real journalism never existed because news sources were profit driven.....including Benjamin Franklin. Furthermore, profit-driven industries are inherently evil and the government is not.
    Last edited by American; 12-04-09 at 02:43 PM.
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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So what you're saying is that real journalism never existed because news sources were profit driven.....including Benjamin Franklin. Furthermore, profit-driven industries are inherently evil and the government is not.

    No, you are not reading my posts. The competitiveness of entertainment to hard news is definitely more extreme than in the past. You cannot deny that this is a different environment than Benjamin Franklin faced.

    And you argue that government assistance is inherently evil and profit-driven industries are not? Actually I never said that and neither did you because neither view is accurate. You want my opinon, read my posts but don't project your own beliefs to me.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You have no clue what I am talking about when I saw free do you?

    I don't care about Corporate ownership of a news organization. Do you know why? If say the American Morning News owned by Mega Corp. puts out an inferior product, in this case news... it will lose circulation, and eventually become a liability to Mega Corp. Who will be forced to either eat the loss, or sell off the paper (or just shut it down).

    If Government owns/pays for a newspaper to stay afloat, not only will they not have to put out a solid product, not only will they continue to be a drain on the tax payer, it will ensure the reporting be subpar and very likely to NOT be too critical of those in Washington keeping it running.


    You obviously, like OC above, have no concept of Free Enterprise nor do you appreciate the power of the markets.
    Apparently I don't know what you meant by free. I thought "free" meant open news information but it also can mean a paper you didn't pay for like the free weeklies you see out on the corner. Why are you more concerned about media profits than the quality of the product?

    It is not automatic that corporate products are superior. Right now if you compared CNN to C-Span, I would think that you would agree that C-Span has a better quality program. Yet, C-Span is non-profit. Also if you compared Air America to NPR, you would also find that NPR puts out a better product. Yet both CNN and Air America are more profitable. It is a myth that free enterprise automatically equals better product in all cases.

    I am not sure where you get the concept that the article you quote is talking about government purchasing newspapers. The article never makes that suggestion--why are you?

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