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Thread: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

  1. #271
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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Failed?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/bu...a/18times.html

    They made money off it. What the NYT did was change their revenue system to one that favored ad based revenue.
    Perhaps you should learn what actually happened rather then just assume what you wish to be true?

    They went where the money was.

    Do you have an example of where a newspaper charged solely online and failed because of it?

    So again, all you have right now is conjecture, but worse because you don't look at the facts. You just assume what you wish to be true.
    Does the NYT charge a subscription fee for its online newspaper???

    No, didn't think so.

    The WSJ DOES charge a subscription fee AND gets ad revenue from their online newspaper. Appears to most reasonable people that the public would not pay to read the NYT online paper.

    Because they report online subscriptions as subscriptions. As I noted before, and as Mr. V totally screwed up in an epic way, NYT has huge amount of unique IDs and page hits but doesn't count those as circulation.
    If the WSJ charges $50/year (made up amount) for its online subscription and the NYT charges $0/year, then yes I would expect the WSJ to include online subscriptions in its numbers since they are PAID subscriptions.

    Seems pretty elementary to me. Both circulation numbers include PAID subscriptions. Freebie online subscriptions don't count. If I printed 10 million newspapers and handed them all out on the street for free, could I claim I that have ten million subscribers??
    Last edited by Gill; 12-14-09 at 09:25 AM.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Does the NYT charge a subscription fee for its online newspaper???

    No, didn't think so.

    The WSJ DOES charge a subscription fee AND gets ad revenue from their online newspaper. Appears to most reasonable people that the public would not pay to read the NYT online paper.
    So everything that is free is worth less and makes less money than things that are paid for? Hmmm. Does that mean most internet news sites and blogs, and all broadcast TV and radio stations are worthless too?

    Seems pretty elementary to me. Both circulation numbers include PAID subscriptions. Freebie online subscriptions don't count. If I printed 10 million newspapers and handed them all out on the street for free, could I claim I that have ten million subscribers??
    No, but you could claim to have 10 million readers, and sell ads against that. Happens all the time.

    Paid subscriptions are not an indicator of financial success or quality in the media world. It's a small part of revenue for most publications, probably including the WSJ website.

  3. #273
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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Paid subscriptions are not an indicator of financial success or quality in the media world. It's a small part of revenue for most publications, probably including the WSJ website.
    Really?? Want to compare the financial status of the NYT to the WSJ??

    I didn't think so.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really?? Want to compare the financial status of the NYT to the WSJ??

    I didn't think so.
    I repeat, subscriptions are not an indicator of financial success. I didn't say the NYT wasn't in trouble, I said it had nothing to do with online subscriptions.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I repeat, subscriptions are not an indicator of financial success. I didn't say the NYT wasn't in trouble, I said it had nothing to do with online subscriptions.
    Newspaper Economics 101:

    1. Newspapers get their revenue primarily from ads.

    2. Ad revenue is based on circulation numbers.

    3. The lower the circulation, the lower the income from advertising.

    4. The lower the income from advertising, the lower the financial success.

    Bottom line: the lower the circulation, the lower the financial success.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Does the NYT charge a subscription fee for its online newspaper???

    No, didn't think so.

    The WSJ DOES charge a subscription fee AND gets ad revenue from their online newspaper. Appears to most reasonable people that the public would not pay to read the NYT online paper.



    If the WSJ charges $50/year (made up amount) for its online subscription and the NYT charges $0/year, then yes I would expect the WSJ to include online subscriptions in its numbers since they are PAID subscriptions.

    Seems pretty elementary to me. Both circulation numbers include PAID subscriptions. Freebie online subscriptions don't count. If I printed 10 million newspapers and handed them all out on the street for free, could I claim I that have ten million subscribers??

    Gill, I'm confused here on what you are saying. Newspapers DO charge for an online version of their paper. You can generally read most of the contents of newspapers online, but at the same time the NY Times, LA Times and my old hometown paper, the Chicago Sun-Times and the Louisville Courier-Journal actually charge for online versions (PDF's) of their daily papers. (interestingly they will offer a free version of this when they have delivery problems) and I am sure many other newspaper do the same thing. I am a subscriber of the Sun-Times because you actually get the same version of the daily paper.

    The NY Times originally had a subscription where you paid a fee for getting certain areas of the paper not available online like editorial writers, but they dropped that setup. But you can still buy an online subscription.

    What do you mean by they DON'T charge?

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Newspaper Economics 101:

    1. Newspapers get their revenue primarily from ads.

    2. Ad revenue is based on circulation numbers.

    3. The lower the circulation, the lower the income from advertising.

    4. The lower the income from advertising, the lower the financial success.

    Bottom line: the lower the circulation, the lower the financial success.
    Read through the thread, we just covered this.

    Circulation and paid subscriptions are two different things. Advertising rates are not set based on paid subscriptions. Newspaper Economics 101.

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Gill, I'm confused here on what you are saying. Newspapers DO charge for an online version of their paper. You can generally read most of the contents of newspapers online, but at the same time the NY Times, LA Times and my old hometown paper, the Chicago Sun-Times and the Louisville Courier-Journal actually charge for online versions (PDF's) of their daily papers. (interestingly they will offer a free version of this when they have delivery problems) and I am sure many other newspaper do the same thing. I am a subscriber of the Sun-Times because you actually get the same version of the daily paper.

    The NY Times originally had a subscription where you paid a fee for getting certain areas of the paper not available online like editorial writers, but they dropped that setup. But you can still buy an online subscription.

    What do you mean by they DON'T charge?
    All I have to say is go to: Today's Paper - New York Times

    Did you have to pay or subscribe??

    Do they ask you for money on the registration page??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    All I have to say is go to: Today's Paper - New York Times

    Did you have to pay or subscribe??

    Do they ask you for money on the registration page??
    But.............Business News & Financial News - The Wall Street Journal - WSJ.com

    Can't we say the same thing about the Wall Street Journal's page?

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Read through the thread, we just covered this.

    Circulation and paid subscriptions are two different things. Advertising rates are not set based on paid subscriptions. Newspaper Economics 101.
    Really? How many people get the NYT that don't pay for a subscription?

    Paid subscriptions and circulation are the same thing.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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