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Thread: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    Apparently I don't know what you meant by free. I thought "free" meant open news information but it also can mean a paper you didn't pay for like the free weeklies you see out on the corner. Why are you more concerned about media profits than the quality of the product?

    It is not automatic that corporate products are superior. Right now if you compared CNN to C-Span, I would think that you would agree that C-Span has a better quality program. Yet, C-Span is non-profit. Also if you compared Air America to NPR, you would also find that NPR puts out a better product. Yet both CNN and Air America are more profitable. It is a myth that free enterprise automatically equals better product in all cases.

    I am not sure where you get the concept that the article you quote is talking about government purchasing newspapers. The article never makes that suggestion--why are you?
    My granddaughter's lemonade stand is more profitable that Air America and it won't be long before she beats CNN at the rate they're going.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    My granddaughter's lemonade stand is more profitable that Air America and it won't be long before she beats CNN at the rate they're going.
    She probably is. I heard that the lemonade she makes is really watered down but the customers fall for her excellent sales pitch.


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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    She probably is. I heard that the lemonade she makes is really watered down but the customers fall for her excellent sales pitch.

    Watered down Lemonade has more flavor than Airhead America and CNN.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Watered down Lemonade has more flavor than Airhead America and CNN.
    And a lot more people come around to hear her talk, even though she's only 8.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucky View Post
    Watered down Lemonade has more flavor than Airhead America and CNN.

    and with your comments, you prove my point. I list myself as very liberal but I don't listen or watch either one without feeling like I'm wasting my time. You can't honestly say the same thing about NPR or C-Span. (although you got to be a fanatic to watch C-Span for long periods of time.)

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
    You can't honestly say the same thing about NPR or C-Span. (although you got to be a fanatic to watch C-Span for long periods of time.)
    I dont listen to NPR,but C-Span is pretty good (I'm a fanatic )
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Obvious Child loves to decry partisan hackery, yet this thread proves what a partisan hack OC is at heart.
    By pointing out how the same stuff happened under Bush.

    And by pointing out how it has happened for hundreds if not thousands of years.

    I guess by being historically objective, recognizing that politicians have doing this for years and naming specific examples that makes me a partisan in your eyes.

    It's pretty clear you define "partisan hack" as anyone who disagrees with you the same way Navy Pride defines "liberal" as anyone who disagrees with him.

    I also noticed your utter failure to show how I am wrong on a single point here. Imagine that. You can't actually refute me, so you throw around insults as if they compensated for your utter lack of any knowledge and debate skills.

    Newspapers and other Journalism business will have to adapt to the changes, or fail. Having the Government subsidize them is about the worst possible solution one can imagine.
    Except that you fail to notice this happens everywhere. I named a specific example of family farms tax changes which did not generate much income (or any) that was passed under Bush which is a direct subsidization of them. Did you even acknowledge it? No, because a Republican engaged in welfare, therefore it is okay to you.

    I'm still waiting for one of you geniuses to show how changing amortization time lines results in what you are claiming. Good luck with that.

    I do find it amusing that three people who have never proven me wrong on anything and run away from hard questions I asked them thanked you.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Yes, they are very VERY unreasonable.

    And here's why. A free, independent media must exist on it's own merit, with no financial strings attached courtesy of the Government.

    Why is it Liberals are so unable to accept that businesses from time to time, fail because they have outlived their ability to be profitable? What, do you people think that there are only X amount of Businesses, and if we don't save them that industry will cease to exist?

    Why are "Progressives" so afraid of change, and so desperate to keep the status quo?
    You must enjoy the taste of fail. After all, you keep coming back for more.

    Your point was refuted before you even posted:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1058402340
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Of course journalism can exist, and be profitable. Since news papers rely on advertising more so than subscriptions, then it is an adherence to basic journalistic principles that will win the day in that regard, delivering the most readers, and thus the widest audience to advertisers for potential customers.
    Which is a problem that results in a crappy media. Something that Zyphlin eluded to. When profit is the major drive to media, they pander to specific biases to increase revenue resulting in exceedingly unreliable, one sided and otherwise not useful for democratic process.

    Furthermore, everyone here except me seems to ignore how the current tax law is something the media requires for growth. Not to mention the legalistic copyright structure. Would there be media without that? Not in the form we have. Like it or not, the media has always been dependent. But the partisans here pretend it's not because a democrat said something.

    News papers like the NYTimes, and alike have been largely responsible for their own demise in recent times. It used to be that reporting the news was left to the meat and potatoes of the paper, and the Op-Ed pages was where you could find the ideological bent of the editorial staff. That seems to disappear during conservative presidencies. What we are left with in journalism are people that graduate with an eye toward 'changing the world' instead of what should be the goal, reporting the facts.
    Uh no. Newspapers as an entire industry is responsible for its demise because they failed to change with the times. You are ignoring how newspapers across the country pandering to every political bias are having problems. The only ones that aren't are largely the niche business ones that professionals are willing to pay for. This is why you are a partisan. Rather then address the actual underlying objective business model reality, you pander to anti-liberal notions. Newspapers fail because people get their news from varying sources. Reliance upon one is going the way of the dinosaurs. No one pays for the WSJ for its political opinions. They pay for the business aspects. No one pays for the financial times for its political opinions. They pay for the business insight. No one pays for Investors Business Daily for its political opinions. They pay for the business aspects. The Chicago Tribune has endorsed Republicans for decades. Guess who's on the not going to make it short list?

    People are smarter than the liberal elites give them credit for, and see right through the BS delivered in the daily bird cage liner.
    Then tell me why Republican and Conservative leaning papers are on the short list of going extinct as well?

    Hint: It has nothing to do with bias. It has everything to do with competition of where one gets their media. Why pay for a newspaper when I can get the same news free online? Doesn't matter if you're a Cheney backer or Pelsoi supporter, free is still free.

    You mentioned NPR, and C-SPAN in your comments above, both which are operated totally by taxpayer dollars, and other funding like the Carnegie Foundation. While sans Washington Journal, C-Span offers an unbiased look only when it simply turns the cameras on in congress and steps back. Other than that they have a leaning that is clear. NPR is just blatant. Arguably one of the most left leaning sources of News available. But neither are papers are they? And since our discussion is on that I will defer to the topic at hand.
    Left leaning because they disagree with you? Or left leaning on some actual objective criteria? I agree that fully publicly funded is a bad idea because it allows politicians to monkey around with content, but that is hardly the same as allowing 501(c)(3) or changing amortization tables.

    Government control will not rid the papers of voices on the right like is the hope of liberals, it will only force a hand of open deceit like is found in Venezuela.
    Has that happened with industries we extended additional tax benefits to in the past?

    Or are you as usual talking out of your butt?

    The whole reason you are angry is because a Democrat said it. When Republicans engage in tax law changes, you say nothing because they are Republicans.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Govt will need to help shape U.S. media: Waxman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You have no clue what I am talking about when I saw free do you?
    You have no idea what you are talking about when you discussed free. I already pointed out to Zyphlin how they are dependent upon the government as it is. You then made an argument I previously refuted as if it was still valid. And you deliberately ignored how my other previous posts showed that this changes literally nothing.

    If Government owns/pays for a newspaper to stay afloat, not only will they not have to put out a solid product, not only will they continue to be a drain on the tax payer, it will ensure the reporting be subpar and very likely to NOT be too critical of those in Washington keeping it running.
    Good job on admitting you did not read the article but as usually assumed what you wanted to be true without first examining the facts in any way that would show you put any effort into any of your posts in the slightest.

    Tell me, did he mention nationalization? Or are you like J-mac talking out of your @ss? I'll ask this again, but I don't think you have the intelligence nor the guts to answer it:

    Tell me how changing amortization tables results in your conclusion.

    You obviously, like OC above, have no concept of Free Enterprise nor do you appreciate the power of the markets.
    See above. Enjoying the constant taste of fail?

    By the way, free enterprise doesn't exist. We have managed enterprise. Stop pretending you understanding anything about how the market actually functions. It's clear you do not.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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