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Thread: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    I'm not familiar with the Green case though being born and raised in Arkansas I can tell you that it did not make so much as a blip upon the political radar in Arkansas.

    And to claim a "citizen revolt" against Gov. Huckabee regarding pardons and other matters is not true.

    You should not take claims by political figures in the Little Rock metropolitan area very seriously.

    It is one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States.

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Whose ducking? I've stated repeatedly throughout this that he commuted his sentence. I've stated repeatedly that was a bad decision on Huckabee's part. I've stated repeatedly his action's played a part in this. What the hell are you talking about in regards to "ducking"?
    You are duckiing the fact that it began with him.

    How many times do I have to repeat myself?

    sigh

    Huckabee didn't "interfere" in the process because the actiosn he took is PART OF THE PROCESS.
    This is like saying someone that fouls someone in basektball is "interfering with the process of the game". No, its part of the game. Its in the rules. Same thing here. You could say he was interfering in the sentencing, but that's the exact PUROSE of the ability to commute sentences and pardon people and that's its purpose IN THE PROCESS.
    WRONG. It is NOT part of the process. It is an elective choice. Commuting a sentence is NOT part of the process. It is an action that can be taken but is certainly not standard procedure. I can't believe you are trying to pretend it is.

    No, I don't want to excuse Huckabee for that. I've not excused him yet. You like to make crap up. I'm saying that people LYING about what he did by saying he pardoned a guy, MISLEADING people by implying that he pardoned the guy of rape, and and people trying to make this ALL Huckabee's fault are EXTREMELY over exaggerating the issue for alterior reasons other than the facts which is excusing every single other person involved in this screw up.
    You are making an excuse for him when you pretend communiting a prisnor's sentence is part of the standard process for the judicial system.

    Thats about as stupid as saying pardons are standard processes.

    They are NOT. They are an elective choice to be taken at the will of the governor, NOT part of the judicial system process.

    It is you who are trying to mislead people. Not all criminals once they are sentenced go to the governor for even consideration of commuting a sentence and to pretend it is just smacks of dishonesty.

    "If I only had a brain...."
    I know but for some reason you still pretend you have one.

    Nice strawman.

    I never stated you said what Huckabee did was illegal. Please find me making that claim. You stated that he interfered with a lawful sentencing, implying that somehow since the sentencing was lawful it was wrong for Huckabee to commute it. However, if you’re reason for agreeing with the sentence is that it was “lawful” then you can’t truly get overly upset with Huckabee because what he did was ALSO lawful, ALSO part of the system, and perfectly acceptable in regards to the law.
    Yes you did say I was claiming what he did was unlawful. I quote your post:

    You want to say that Huckabee overturned a "lawful punishment" while ignoring the fact that what Huckabee did was ALSO lawful.

    Why was one lawful, but possibly negligent thing (a grossly over the top jail sentence), something you'll happily ignore, forgive, and not even mention but another lawful but possibly negligent thing (commuting his sentence), something you want to crucify a man for?
    I never ignored what he did was lawful nor did I claim he ever did anything unlawful. That was your false claim.

    YOU threw the “lawful” word around as a means of implying why Huckabee was wrong for commuting the sentence. I simply stated if the fact it was “lawful” to you mattered then why are you mad at Huckabee doing something “lawful”.
    Bull****. I never ever stated what he did was unlawful. I said he commuted a lawful sentence which he absoluitely did. You are dishonestly trying to make it to be a questioning of his act as an unlawful one which I never did and that is what makes you the liar.

    I never once stated you said it was illegal.
    Yes you did. See above.

    Ditto above. I never said you stated that.
    Again, yes you did, see above.

    His “interference” is PART OF THE PROCESS.
    WRONG AGAIN. It is NOT part of the process for criminals to have thier cases reviewed for communiting their sentences.

    That is a SEPARATE ACT the Governor CAN take but you are flat out LYING to claim it is part of the process because unless it happens to ALL cases is it NOT.

    Actually, I’m not that big of a fan of him…as I’ve already said in this thread. I don’t think he’d ever have a chance at winning the Presidency. I didn’t like his comments regarding the constitution. I think he can be fairly entertaining when on something like Colbert and has a few views I like, but he’s a bit too much of a religious theocrat for me. I don’t excuse his actions at all, I simply don’t over exaggerate them or even downright lie about them like some have in this thread.
    No you just lie about what others have said about his actions then try to spin his responsibility for his own actions by pretending the entire start of the process of this criminal getting out early didn't begin with him.

    It absolutely began with him and you simply are not honest enough to admit that.

    And I’ll say it again, his commuting was also completely lawful
    And I'll say it again, I never said it wasn't.

    part of the process,
    Wrong again. It is not. It is an elective choice of power not part of the process for every criminal sentences.

    and simply because, if we accept your premise, it “started” with him does not excuse every other person in the line nor make him leaps and bounds more guilty.
    I said it started with him. I never EVER said that no one else let him out early.

    I said the entire process of this guy getting out early began with Huckabee which is 100% correct and you aren't honest enough to admit that.

    Oh, I’m sure it was taken into account. Doesn’t mean they had to go along with it. Doesn’t mean they don’t share some of the blame.
    How many times do I have to say it started with him before you actually read it? 4? 5?

    What?! You’d say it’s the fault of everyone that voting for it? But…but how!? I mean, shouldn’t the only person you care about be the person that STARTED it?! I mean I don’t hear you going on about the parole board, or the judge, or the prosecutor that filed paper work wrong, hell I hardly hear you talking bad about the criminal. All I see you doing is ranting and raving about Huckabee because “he started it”. Yet you’d be blame “anyone” that voted for it?

    Odd.
    My God you are dishonest.

    What you took out of the quote was the next line I said:

    Starting with the person who proposed it in the first place.

    I never once excused any judge in Arkansas or the parole board or the judges in the NorthWest.

    I said it STARTED with Huckabee because if he didn't INTERFERE which exactly what he did this guy would have NEVER been eligible for parole and would still be in JAIL. That does NOT mean I excuse what others did after that fact.

    Until you are honest enough about this fact, there is nothing more to say.

    And you couldn't have been more DISHONEST by removing the very next quote in that answer to you which proved I never changed my opinion once.

    Again, do you have proof to do this? As I said to someone else, is this just baseless accusations because you dislike the guys religion or are you somehow a mind reader. Proof he did this simply because “he liked the fact this guy claimed he was born again” and not due to any other reasons?
    LOL I think his criminal record after he got out kinda puts a damper in his born again Christian claim. Wow, thats the dumbest you've made so far but also the most amusing.

    I don’t feel sorry for him at all. He should be feeling incredibly guilty. Pardoning and commutations are powerful tools of the executive and he used it far to liberally (again, not the political use of the word). That said, I’m not a hack. I actually like to look at things with intellectual honesty and logic rather than emotion.
    Sure you do. That's why you can't even admit this guy would still been in jail if not for Huckabee commuting his sentence.

    If people were actually insulting and attacking Huckabee based on real FACTS and weren’t over exaggerating his role in this while all but ignoring every, single, other persons role in this…including some seemingly completely ignoring the guy that actually DID the act…I’d be right there with them. But when people flat out lie (like the one poster who continued to call it a pardon), when people flat out mislead (like the poster that continued to imply that the sentence Huckabee acted on was for rape), and when people over exaggerate the guilt of one while basically writing off everyone else then it requires someone to actually argue from the side of logic and honesty.
    No one exaggerated his role. Not once. I said it began with him and it did. You simply cannot admit he would never have been eligible for parole without Huckabee which was the start of the entire process.

    I would also suggest you not dishonestly omit quotes from someone's response then dishonestly claim a conclusion was made that was never stated.

    It is the lowest and most dishonest form of debate.

    The hell does that even mean?
    My God how old are you? Do you even know who Dukakis is or do you need that spoonfed to you as well?

    I doubt that’s the case, I’d be voting for Reagan.
    Um, uh hey Genius, Dukakis ran against Bush.

    Thanks for ending it with the same attention to detail and intellectual prowess I've come to expect from your replies.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Good point texmaster.

    I apologize.

    You did not lie.

    My difference with you can be classified as differences of opinion and to your way of thinking Mike Huckabee is not a conservative (to mine he is of course).

    You have a right to your opinion as as far as I know in this thread you did not deliberately state a complete falsehood.
    Thank you for that.

    I apologize for my role in the escalation.

    And you are correct, the definition of a conservative is very subjective. I simply do not agree you can even call him a social conservative with his stance on illegal immigration alone but as you said its a subjective statement.
    Last edited by texmaster; 12-03-09 at 03:02 PM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You are duckiing the fact that it began with him.

    l
    This is where I find your position texmaster to be somewhat disagreeable.

    While you are "technically" correct that the process that led to Clemmons release began with Governor Huckabee (and the subsequent deaths of the four police officers), it seems to me that you are implying that because the process began with him that makes him primarily responsible.

    I don't concede that.

    Because with the passage of years and distance a number of people had the power or authority to stop Clemmons march towards murder and return him to custody.

    Each person over the nine years from his being granted parole to the murders who could've stopped Clemmons had some responsibility to do so.

    The fact that Mike Huckabee is the first in the line doesn't necessarily mean he is most responsible.

    In fact, given that Huckabee was the earliest and thus most distant from Clemmons apparent descent into delusion and madness, one could argue he is in fact the least responsible party.

    This is similar to what is called the "Last Clear Chance Doctrine" in civil liability

    That is, the party with the last clear opportunity to avoid an accident is the one with the primary responsibility to do so. Regardless of whether the events that lead to a tragedy are set in motion by someone else's negligence.

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Ah, my bad. That election that occured when I wasn't even into my pre-teens yet sometimes doesn't pop into my head right off the bat . Foolish 5 year old me not remembering instantly who dukakis ran against.

    And seriously, you bitch about someone "running away like a child" from accusations of lying....and then you continue to call me a liar based on your interpritation of what I'm saying that even needs you to insert statements I never even made to make your point. Wow. Seriously, with that level of narcasism there's really no point. You're not looking for a debate, you just want to fume and lie.

    I never, once, said that you stated Huckabee's actions were illegal. I stated that your focus on him overturning a "lawful" punishment was an illogical argument since the actions that Huckabee took was ALSO lawful, and therefore the fact it was a "Lawful" punishment doesn't matter. But please, keep calling me a liar, its rather fun watching you try and twist it around so it appeases your mind.

    Again, it started with the criminal perpetrating a crime.

    Again, the extremely large sentence likely played into Huckabee's choice to commute.

    Again, yes, Huckabee has some blame for this for commuting his sentence, thus allowing him to potentially gain early parole.

    Again, yes, the parole board has some of the blame for this for granting him parole.

    Again, yes, the judge has some culpability in this for supporting both actions.

    Again, yes, the prosecutor that dropped the ball on paperwork and let this guy get off with an even worse crime has some culpability in this.

    And, most to the point, the CRIMINAL has the most culpability in all of this for actually perpetrating the acts.

    If you want to get hissy and continue to wrongfully and inaccurately claim I’m a liar, go ahead. Here, I’ll even just for the sake of argument agree with you and play with your premise. Fine, HIS RELEASE started at the point that Huckabee allowed for his commutation.

    Okay.

    That still to me does not put the majority of the blame on Huckabee. Simply being the first in a line of things does not make one the most responsible, and especially not in such a disproportionate way as has been presented where most of the Huckabee detractors on this thread and others have gone “HUCKABEE HUCKABEE HUCKABEE HUCKABEE, small quick whisper about the others, HUCKABEE HUCKABEE HUCKABEE”.

    Even if we accept your premise and everything “started” with Huckabee, that still does not mean that the amazing liability everyone is putting on Huckabee is accurate, fair, or reasonable.

    YOU’VE turned the argument into one about whether he was “first or not” with me, but my initial view is still the main one I’m arguing. That yes, HUCKABEE is in part responsible for this, but not truly more so or much more so than many, many others in the judicial process up to this point that continued to enable this person and not NEARLY as responsible as THE PERSON THEMSELVES.

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I wish people would understand this isn't about what actually took place it's about giving Huckabee the Palin treatment. Don't talk about facts truth or anything of the kind just attack and keep everyone focus off the real problem. That being Obama and his imbecilic ideas and plans to destroy the Nation as is seen in almost all of his Socialist/Communist actions.

    What's that you say? Prove he has a Socialist/Communist agenda. Okay here watch Howard Dean. The set down and shut up.
    DNC's Howard Dean Declares: "Instead Of Capitalism OR Socialism, We're Going To HaveBoth" - Home - The Daily Bail
    Let's try this again, since you seem to not have figured it out: this is not about Obama. This is not about conservatives or liberals. This is not about Obama. Your fixation on Obama is strange and unnatural.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    I'm not familiar with the Green case though being born and raised in Arkansas I can tell you that it did not make so much as a blip upon the political radar in Arkansas.
    It clearly "made a blip" if the outcry from prosecutors, the parole board, and the media caused Huckabee to recant and call off Green's clemency. That you didn't notice is neither here nor there.

    And to claim a "citizen revolt" against Gov. Huckabee regarding pardons and other matters is not true.
    Gosh, I just don't recall ever having said that. Could you provide the link that quotes me directly?

    You should not take claims by political figures in the Little Rock metropolitan area very seriously.
    It would seem that, in the case of Mr. Huckabee, you're entirely correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    It is one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States.
    Really? In the ENTIRE United States? Hyperbole much?

    Hmmm. I see that in the 2008 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In the 2004 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In the 2000 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In fact, since 1972 Arkansas has been a red state in every election except those in which local boy Bill Clinton ran. Interesting.

    But that's state politics. Let's look at the Little Rock area specifically.

    2004 Presidential Election results in Pulaski County Arkansas:

    Bush / Cheney (Rep.) (44%)
    Kerry / Edwards (Dem.) (55%)
    Other (1%)
    If Pulaski County is "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," shouldn't Kerry have gotten ALL the votes?

    2008 Presidential Election results in Pulaski County Arkansas:

    Obama / Biden (Dem.) 55.0%
    McCain / Palin (Rep.) 44.0%
    If Pulaski County is "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," shouldn't Obama have gotten ALL the votes?



    Given that Pulaski County's voting record over the last eight years hasn't changed a bit and clearly proves it is NOT "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," I think it's safe to say that your assessment of Arkansas politics is seriously off the mark.

    Last edited by Glinda; 12-03-09 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #278
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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    It clearly "made a blip" if the outcry from prosecutors, the parole board, and the media caused Huckabee to recant and call off Green's clemency. That you didn't notice is neither here nor there.



    Gosh, I just don't recall ever having said that. Could you provide the link that quotes me directly?



    It would seem that, in the case of Mr. Huckabee, you're entirely correct.



    Really? In the ENTIRE United States? Hyperbole much?

    Hmmm. I see that in the 2008 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In the 2004 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In the 2000 general election, Arkansas was a red state. In fact, since 1972 Arkansas has been a red state in every election except those in which local boy Bill Clinton ran. Interesting.

    But that's state politics. Let's look at the Little Rock area specifically.



    If Pulaski County is "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," shouldn't Kerry have gotten ALL the votes?



    If Pulaski County is "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," shouldn't Obama have gotten ALL the votes?



    Given that Pulaski County's voting record over the last eight years hasn't changed a bit and clearly proves it is NOT "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States," I think it's safe to say that your assessment of Arkansas politics is seriously off the mark.

    Not at all.

    Your statistics are misleading.

    Given that the 2004 election featured a candidate from Massachusettes running against a Texan, Kerry's performance was WAY better in Pulaski Co. than it should've been.

    Arkansans loathe Massachusettes as much as they loathe New York. And a little known secret about Arkansas voters is that they will vote for a person from Texas pretty much above a candidate from any other state (except a home boy like Clinton).

    IIRC, the 2nd Congressional District of Arkansas which includes Pulaski Co. hasn't voted a Republican into office since 1980.

    Twenty eight years is pretty partisan.

    Though to be fair the 3rd Congressional District is just as Republican.

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    Re: Cop Killer was pardoned from a life sentence by Mike Huckabee 9 years ago

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    Kerry's performance was WAY better in Pulaski Co. than it should've been.
    If that's true, it only proves that Pulaski County ISN'T "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States."

    Keep dancin', fella. There is no way in hell Pulaski County is "one of the most die hard Democratic/anti Republican areas in the entire United States."

    But of course, this is way off the topic of this thread, in which I've had to correct you and point out your errors/lies/ignorance of the matter more than once.

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