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Thread: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    This article is very telling and disturbing. The double standard by the Muslim world is appalling. In the Muslim countries it's rare for Christians to have full autonomy. The heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, fully suppresses Christain expression. Yet Muslim leaders cry foul when a non-Muslim nation bans only one particular structure that is associated with the more theocratic aspect of Islam.

    And, what does the Swiss minister in this article fear? She states that this is a security risk to have enacted this ban! It sounds as if she fears inciting Muslim reactionaries. In other words, we in the West should bow to terrorism.

    BBC News - Minaret ban 'a security risk' - Swiss minister

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    I, for one, tired of Muslims crying for tolerance from the already tolerant West, while they, themselves, stay mostly silent when their co-religionists commit atrocities and repressions.

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    This article is very telling and disturbing. The double standard by the Muslim world is appalling. In the Muslim countries it's rare for Christians to have full autonomy. The heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, fully suppresses Christain expression. Yet Muslim leaders cry foul when a non-Muslim nation bans only one particular structure that is associated with the more theocratic aspect of Islam.
    You're making the same old mistake - talking as if there were only a few "Muslim leaders" and they all talk with one voice.

    I have actually heard Muslim leaders from Switzerland talking about this on the radio. The certainly didn't approve of oppression in Muslim countries.

    (As for "one particular structure that is associated with the more theocratic aspect of Islam" - no. It's nothing more than part of a mosque, much like a church spire. Hardly "theocratic" at all.)
    Last edited by misterman; 12-01-09 at 01:32 PM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I think I was very clear.

    I am not talking about American liberal values. I'm talking about values that we hold to be universal. If you disagree, that's fine. Let's first settle whether we can apply ANY values, or whether a government can have total control.
    Yes you are and american liberal values aren't universal. Once again, this isn't control by government. It's the will of the people to decide what is and isn't permissable inside their borders.

    Do you think expecting the Iranians and Saudis not to force women into burqas and chop off heads is applying American liberal values? What about when we complained about the Soviet treatment of their people? Or the Nazis?
    The iranians and saudis do these things because it's part of their culture. They care little for what american liberals think. You are aware we were a valued ally of the soviets during roosevelt's administration aren't you? We didn't complain about them during the ww2. As for hitler he had his admirers before the war, think kennedy here.
    Last edited by Dutch; 12-01-09 at 01:32 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Yes you are and american liberal values aren't universal.
    Please read more carefully, I didn't say that. I asked you if there are any universal values.

    Once again, this isn't control by government. It's the will of the people to decide what is and isn't permissable inside their borders.
    No, it's government control. Just because the will of (some of the) people is involved doesn't change that. I explained this to you.

    The iranians and saudis do these things because it's part of their culture. They care little for what american liberals think. You are aware we were a valued ally of the soviets during roosevelt's administration aren't you? We didn't complain about them during the ww2.
    God, you're a massive question-dodger. (I love the liberal-sounding "part of their culture" thing though!)

    Answer these questions please:

    1. Do you fully approve of or have no complaint about what the Iranians and Saudis do?

    2. Did you approve of or have no complaint about the Soviet treatment of their people?

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    I, for one, tired of Muslims crying for tolerance from the already tolerant West, while they, themselves, stay mostly silent when their co-religionists commit atrocities and repressions.
    As if you can sum up a billion people in one sentence.

    Plenty of them speak up against atrocities and oppressions. You just never notice.

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Yes you are and american liberal values aren't universal. Once again, this isn't control by government. It's the will of the people to decide what is and isn't permissable inside their borders.



    The iranians and saudis do these things because it's part of their culture. They care little for what american liberals think. You are aware we were a valued ally of the soviets during roosevelt's administration aren't you? We didn't complain about them during the ww2. As for hitler he had his admirers before the war, think kennedy here.
    "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" applies here....
    Old Joey K was after profit, just like granddaddy Bush....

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    As if you can sum up a billion people in one sentence.

    Plenty of them speak up against atrocities and oppressions. You just never notice.
    Maybe they need to speak louder....
    Enough to drown out the death cries of 3,000 innocent victims, for starters....

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Yes you are and american liberal values aren't universal. Once again, this isn't control by government. It's the will of the people to decide what is and isn't permissable inside their borders.
    Work on your reasoning processes, buddy.

    The ban is the reflection of the will of the people enacted into law. Laws are government activities, and thus the new building codes are adjusting the control the government has over new construction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    You are aware we were a valued ally of the soviets during roosevelt's administration aren't you? We didn't complain about them during the ww2.
    Pay more attention to a man named Patton.

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    Re: Swiss voters approve constitutional ban of minarets

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    As if you can sum up a billion people in one sentence.

    Plenty of them speak up against atrocities and oppressions. You just never notice.
    I disagree that muslims leaders have done all they can to help quell the violence we see all over the world. In fact, I see more apologists then anything else, from one corner of the world to the other. I guess you missed the recent muslim march to DC, the signs, the rhetoric was anything but peaceful, helpful, it was just more of the same.

    All that said, I still do not agree with this decision, but this is europe, and they have been slipping for sometime now, I am just glad I live in this country, under this constitution.

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