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Thread: Economy limping back to strength

  1. #41
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    Shouldn't you be looking in the mirror and admitting you were wrong about the stimulus? I think you blame your own faulty opinions on everyone else but yourself.
    Yeah, the government makes the economy. Private industry is unnecessary and evil.

    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Yeah, the government makes the economy. Private industry is unnecessary and evil.
    Well it does.

    Without government there would be anarchy and in anarchy there would be no private industry.

    On top of that government provides a structure to society that make it possible for private industry to start and work and flourish depending on the involvement level of government.

    If you seriously think that private industry would work better if there was no government, then you are frankly seriously misguided.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Yes government lays the framework - but overly intrusive government can hinder or destroy private business.

    Look at GM. GM approaches the government for some money and guarentees to enable them to avoid bankruptcy. Government says okay as long as GM presents an approved plan for how to recover. GM works at it, Government turns them down, grabs control of GM, and then forces it into bankruptcy. The CEO of GM makes a public announcement that "If the government wanted us to declare bankruptcy, they could have just said no at the beginning and saved the taxpayers some money." This CEO is then 'fired' by the President of the US.

    So in a recession and financial crisis, when we spent over $1T on saving the million dollar jobs in the financial sector that caused this in the first place, we spent about $15B in loan guarentees to force GM into bankruptcy, destroying the pensions and insurance benefits of the GM and UAW retirees, destroying the investments in GM stock that many of their previous workers and other small investors have, and firing over a third of the GM employees. Many of whose jobs are now overseas by order of the Car Czar. This after spending another $800B in order to save and create jobs in the US.

    Yes, this is government 'involvement' and control of the economy.

    So come on over and visit my neck of the US where in a two month period this year the income of my county dropped by over 40% and unemployment has increased to over 30% - almost entirely through government 'help'. And you wonder why Michigan is about to lose over 25% of their representatives in Congress?

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well it does.

    Without government there would be anarchy and in anarchy there would be no private industry.

    On top of that government provides a structure to society that make it possible for private industry to start and work and flourish depending on the involvement level of government.

    If you seriously think that private industry would work better if there was no government, then you are frankly seriously misguided.
    You're misguided in think that the economy is better off without private industry. But it's not surprising given your Stalinist ideology. Maybe we should put all CEOs into gulags to teach them a lesson.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #45
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well it does.

    Without government there would be anarchy and in anarchy there would be no private industry.

    On top of that government provides a structure to society that make it possible for private industry to start and work and flourish depending on the involvement level of government.

    If you seriously think that private industry would work better if there was no government, then you are frankly seriously misguided.
    Private industry almost always works better than government. There are certain things the government is better at and has proper say in (maintaining a military say); but beyond that its meddling usually only complicates the matter and costs a lot of money.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Any recovery in the immediate term is based solely on certainty. Wall Street likes good times. It likes bad times. It hates uncertain times.

    The more and more Obama's agendas are failing or getting snagged in Congress, the more Wall Street can project. The best thing for Wall Street is the government does absolutely nothing. A healthcare bill like Obama seeks would destroy Wall Street, but with it looking less and less likely, investors are creeping back in.

    Meanwhile, nothing changes on Main Street, and it won't. Some bargain hunting will boost numbers a bit (when you've already hit bottom, it's hard not to get a positive jump from minimal spending).

    Investors are trying to get in on the cheap now to reap later. If Congress jumps Republican in 2010, which will castrate Obama, the market will go bonkers. Better get your money in now.

    The saddest thing is that the people getting hurt the most currently are Obama voters, many of whom don't understand this. And if he gets his tax-the-rich agenda through, more and more people are going to lose their jobs.
    Last edited by Erod; 12-01-09 at 01:12 PM.

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well it does.

    Without government there would be anarchy and in anarchy there would be no private industry.
    Anarchy is by definition, No government.
    Without government, ONLY private industry would exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    On top of that government provides a structure to society that make it possible for private industry to start and work and flourish depending on the involvement level of government.
    Government makes it EASIER for private industries to start and work and flourish but is by no means required for those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    If you seriously think that private industry would work better if there was no government, then you are frankly seriously misguided.
    With this I agree, but the government's role should be a minimal one and not the micro management of private people and industry that it is now.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Well it does.

    Without government there would be anarchy and in anarchy there would be no private industry.

    On top of that government provides a structure to society that make it possible for private industry to start and work and flourish depending on the involvement level of government.

    If you seriously think that private industry would work better if there was no government, then you are frankly seriously misguided.
    No, it doesn't!

    Government can't create an economy, it can't support the economy, it can't create wealth.

    Why do Libbos keep insisting that this is true??
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, it doesn't!

    Government can't create an economy, it can't support the economy, it can't create wealth.

    Why do Libbos keep insisting that this is true??
    China and Russia have LOTS of government. The people live in cracker jack boxes and barely get by.

  10. #50
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    China and Russia have LOTS of government. The people live in cracker jack boxes and barely get by.
    Thank you for illustrating my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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