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Thread: Economy limping back to strength

  1. #251
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicDude86 View Post
    Golden. I am asking you to tell me exactly what impact that those on welfare have on the Crime Rate when they run out of money. Why is this a red herring? You want to talk crime rates as they pertain to poverty and welfare, then let's go down that path.
    The original study i posted, explained what happens. Go back and re read the study, the answer you seek is there.

    And as for removing social welfare, I am not for that, I am all for helping those who truly need it, however, taking those off it who use it to SQUEAK by and then supplement with criminal acts are merely perpetuating a circle. Given enough time off welfare they would either die, get locked up, or take the first step to becoming functioning members of society. It's not the pretty answer, but people need to take responsibility for their actions and stop expecting handouts.
    I respect your opinion. However, such a welfare system protects capitalism. This is not an opinion, only a fact.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #252
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    But you continue to ignore the other incentives offered in the US. Higher wages that lead to higher standards of living. Why is welfare (little money) a greater incentive than employment (more money than welfare)?
    Because the incentive for employment is not always greater than what you get with welfare. With employment, you need to work, but you also get some money. With welfare, you don't need to work, but you get a small amount of money. You'll only get off welfare when you value the money you get from employment more than the time you get from not working and the money you get from welfare. So welfare creates a greater incentive for not working, and so increases unemployment.

    Of course it is. However, you are the one who is against such measures.
    The only thing I'll say about unemployment insurance is that it is much more temporary and you put money into it. I'd rather see total private control of it, but it is a better system than welfare.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #253
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I respect your opinion. However, such a welfare system protects capitalism. This is not an opinion, only a fact.
    Maybe a fact in your eyes, but it's only an opinion.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Maybe a fact in your eyes, but it's only an opinion.
    I advise you to study up on labor economics. Austrian ideas will do you harm in discussions of economics.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I advise you to study up on labor economics. Austrian ideas will do you harm in discussions of economics.
    Another opinion backed up by nothing.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Another opinion backed up by nothing.
    You claim to be pro markets, but refuse to acknowledge the cyclical instability that pressures markets. Social safety nets have been created to deal with the effects of such instability, helping to remove the under consumption that plagues cyclical recessions.

    You will go on to say under consumption is needed all while ignoring the painful consequences and degradation of human capital that accompanies it. Sorry, but the world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

    Keynesianism and social safety nets protect capitalism from its embedded instability. I have already proved this in regards to time frames, of which you shuffled away with comments of severity. I am still waiting for a response in the deflation thread.

    And now, your beloved Austrians are beginning to champion a devoted market socialist. Quite the irony?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You claim to be pro markets, but refuse to acknowledge the cyclical instability that pressures markets. Social safety nets have been created to deal with the effects of such instability, helping to remove the under consumption that plagues cyclical recessions.

    You will go on to say under consumption is needed all while ignoring the painful consequences and degradation of human capital that accompanies it. Sorry, but the world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.
    It's a correction, and previously people were creating things that now people don't want. We should shift production, not demand. Shifting demand is only going to lead to problems because people want what they want, but people don't really care what they produce as long as it gets them a nice return.

    Keynesianism and social safety nets protect capitalism from its embedded instability. I have already proved this in regards to time frames, of which you shuffled away with comments of severity. I am still waiting for a response in the deflation thread.
    Keynesianism brought about the lack of correction of this recession, the Great Stagflation, and the Great Depression. It causes unsustainable growth because you can't fake demand. People are eventually going to go back to what they really want.

    And now, your beloved Austrians are beginning to champion a devoted market socialist. Quite the irony?
    That has nothing to do with me.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #258
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You claim to be pro markets, but refuse to acknowledge the cyclical instability that pressures markets. Social safety nets have been created to deal with the effects of such instability, helping to remove the under consumption that plagues cyclical recessions.

    You will go on to say under consumption is needed all while ignoring the painful consequences and degradation of human capital that accompanies it. Sorry, but the world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

    Keynesianism and social safety nets protect capitalism from its embedded instability. I have already proved this in regards to time frames, of which you shuffled away with comments of severity. I am still waiting for a response in the deflation thread.

    And now, your beloved Austrians are beginning to champion a devoted market socialist. Quite the irony?

    Translation: welfare keeps the poor from rising up and killing the rich.

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Translation: welfare keeps the poor from rising up and killing the rich.
    Quite the effective summery!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #260
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Translation: welfare keeps the poor from rising up and killing the rich.
    And that is a bad thing because?

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