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Thread: Economy limping back to strength

  1. #241
    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You mean like the hundreds of vets who die from lack of health care insurance?
    How about the insane amount of malnutritioned children in the US?
    The millions of homeless?

    We got problems. No question on that.
    The insanity is we have a child obesity problem in this country, THAT'S the larger issue. And we have millions more vets who DO have health insurance, many more hundreds of millions who DO have homes.

    Relatively speaking, there isn't nation that boasts a better standard of living, listen to this nonsense you're spewing. Yesteryear, they had nothing and didn't dish out half the negativities we do today...when we have everything.

    Malnutritioned children in insane amounts is our issue?

    The problem of childhood obesity in the United States has grown considerably in recent years. Between 16 and 33 percent of children and adolescents are obese. Obesity is among the easiest medical conditions to recognize but most difficult to treat. Unhealthy weight gain due to poor diet and lack of exercise is responsible for over 300,000 deaths each year. The annual cost to society for obesity is estimated at nearly $100 billion. Overweight children are much more likely to become overweight adults unless they adopt and maintain healthier patterns of eating and exercise.
    Obesity In Children And Teens | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry

    I think a personal responsibility issue exists, that is our issue. It's clear a health care public plan would be the WORST strat, I would think a more accountable and responsbile solution to our 'problems' is called for.
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  2. #242
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Lets keep it simple.

    If you do not have food to eat, clean clothes to wear, and a place to stay; where does looking for a job rank on that list?
    Pretty damn high on my list since I want to be able to eat, clean my clothes and acquire some shelter. these things require an income.
    From the ashes.

  3. #243
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    And why is that? Should there be someone handing it to them?
    Ever been to a skid row? There are a lot of people just handing them the things that they need.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #244
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    We are not dealing in absolutes. You have yet to consider why the "American Dream" of high wages/wealth is not a good enough incentive for chronic welfare recipients to enter the labor force. Are you aware that not all people who receive government aid do so indefinitely? If not, that might be your error.
    I know that all don't stay there. However, it's an incentive. Not working and getting money from welfare sounds a lot better working hard and only getting minimum wage. Wasn't it you who said that time is scarce so we can't ignore that? Hmm, maybe people factor that into their decisions.

    As you said, welfare alleviates underemployment, so people may eventually find a job that is better than not working at all and only getting a small amount of money. Until then, they'll probably stay on welfare.

    Essentially, you are stating that poverty is a choice. Given that our capitalistic system requires involuntary unemployment, i cannot agree and you will find little evidence to support such a notion.
    Involuntary unemployment? Isn't that what unemployment insurance is for?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #245
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Epic,

    Areas that are impoverished have far higher crime rates (along with more police presence) than higher income areas. Your questions are a red herring, as they do nothing to strengthen your premise; they only shift the debate.

    The fact remains: poverty induces crime, and poverty is determined primarily by income.

    Both you and Tony have argued that it is "optimal" to eliminate our social welfare system, of which i have responded that in doing so, we will increase the crime burden (although it is not felt in proportion). The impoverished face a greater burden than the rich actually.

    Have i argued that welfare traps do not exist? Of course not.
    Golden. I am asking you to tell me exactly what impact that those on welfare have on the Crime Rate when they run out of money. Why is this a red herring? You want to talk crime rates as they pertain to poverty and welfare, then let's go down that path.


    And as for removing social welfare, I am not for that, I am all for helping those who truly need it, however, taking those off it who use it to SQUEAK by and then supplement with criminal acts are merely perpetuating a circle. Given enough time off welfare they would either die, get locked up, or take the first step to becoming functioning members of society. It's not the pretty answer, but people need to take responsibility for their actions and stop expecting handouts.

  6. #246
    Professor Charles Martel's Avatar
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Ever been to a skid row? There are a lot of people just handing them the things that they need.
    Plenty. And history has seen many more rows of skid. Give a man a fish, he eats for the day. Teach him to fish and he eats for eternity....unless someone else is willing to give it to him and then...why learn?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

  7. #247
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Plenty. And history has seen many more rows of skid. Give a man a fish, he eats for the day. Teach him to fish and he eats for eternity....unless someone else is willing to give it to him and then...why learn?
    A modern twist on the "cow" saying: Why get the job at McDonalds when you can have the hamburger and housing for free?
    Last edited by EpicDude86; 12-04-09 at 01:07 PM.

  8. #248
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Martel View Post
    Plenty. And history has seen many more rows of skid. Give a man a fish, he eats for the day. Teach him to fish and he eats for eternity....unless someone else is willing to give it to him and then...why learn?
    But hey, people will die without the help of the government. But then someone will say, "but skid row is nasty." Well yeah, should contributing nothing to society be something that we should make desirable?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #249
    I'm not-low all the time
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Pretty damn high on my list since I want to be able to eat, clean my clothes and acquire some shelter. these things require an income.
    Could you rank order them? Be realistic.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I know that all don't stay there. However, it's an incentive. Not working and getting money from welfare sounds a lot better working hard and only getting minimum wage. Wasn't it you who said that time is scarce so we can't ignore that? Hmm, maybe people factor that into their decisions.

    As you said, welfare alleviates underemployment, so people may eventually find a job that is better than not working at all and only getting a small amount of money. Until then, they'll probably stay on welfare.
    But you continue to ignore the other incentives offered in the US. Higher wages that lead to higher standards of living. Why is welfare (little money) a greater incentive than employment (more money than welfare)?



    Involuntary unemployment? Isn't that what unemployment insurance is for?
    Of course it is. However, you are the one who is against such measures.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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