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Thread: Economy limping back to strength

  1. #231
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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Why exactly?
    Your n equalities are based on opinion. Poverty would be much more severe if a major income source for the poor was eliminated. Therefore it is invalid to state that the poor aggregate is greater without social safety nets.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Your n equalities are based on opinion. Poverty would be much more severe if a major income source for the poor was eliminated. Therefore it is invalid to state that the poor aggregate is greater without social safety nets.
    Wait whaaa? Poverty more severe without welfare? Yes. I don't think I understand what you said after. There will be more poor people with welfare because welfare incentivizes being poor.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But are the resources that we put into welfare offset by the positives produced by reducing undermployment?
    You forgot involuntary unemployment. Would you agree that social safety nets
    prevent successful marxist revolutions?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Wait whaaa? Poverty more severe without welfare? Yes. I don't think I understand what you said after. There will be more poor people with welfare because welfare incentivizes being poor.
    At a certain point yes as evident by parts of Europe. But welfare at certain limits does not. Especially when the amounts are barely enough to keep you fed, clothed and housed. And especially when your neighbor is getting money from the government as incentive for him making money.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You forgot involuntary unemployment.
    How does welfare fix that?

    Would you agree that social safety nets
    prevent successful marxist revolutions?
    No. And I wouldn't want to prevent one by appeasing it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    At a certain point yes as evident by parts of Europe. But welfare at certain limits does not. Especially when the amounts are barely enough to keep you fed, clothed and housed. And especially when your neighbor is getting money from the government as incentive for him making money.
    There isn't really anybody in this country who isn't getting the the things that they need.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Wait whaaa? Poverty more severe without welfare? Yes. I don't think I understand what you said after. There will be more poor people with welfare because welfare incentivizes being poor.
    We are not dealing in absolutes. You have yet to consider why the "American Dream" of high wages/wealth is not a good enough incentive for chronic welfare recipients to enter the labor force. Are you aware that not all people who receive government aid do so indefinitely? If not, that might be your error.

    Essentially, you are stating that poverty is a choice. Given that our capitalistic system requires involuntary unemployment, i cannot agree and you will find little evidence to support such a notion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How does welfare fix that?
    Lets keep it simple.

    If you do not have food to eat, clean clothes to wear, and a place to stay; where does looking for a job rank on that list?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There isn't really anybody in this country who isn't getting the the things that they need.
    You mean like the hundreds of vets who die from lack of health care insurance?
    How about the insane amount of malnutritioned children in the US?
    The millions of homeless?

    We got problems. No question on that.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Economy limping back to strength

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There isn't really anybody in this country who isn't getting the the things that they need.
    And why is that? Should there be someone handing it to them?
    It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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