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Thread: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

  1. #41
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're wrong for two reason; there is no political solution that the Taliban ill accept, other than Taliban control of the entire country; and there are millions of people in Afghanistan that aren't in the Taliban, nor do they want the Taliban to control the country.
    We're not talking about making the Taliban are friends. We're talking about making it so that none of the civilians in Afghanistan want to help the Taliban. Once no one wants to help the Taliban or join the Taliban, we'll basically be at the mop up stage. That's the only way a democracy had ever won an unconventional war. Look at the Brits in Malaysia.

    No, it's going to take the destruction of the enemy's will to wage war. I wish you Libbos would stop repeating that talking point.
    And how are you going to do that? Wholescale slaughter will only enrage family members and the youth who are concerned about honor and the like who usually take up arms. Mass murder only works to stop insurgency when you're willing to massacre entire cities like Syria did against the Muslim Brotherhood, and as a democracy that cares about world opinion, we can't do that.
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  2. #42
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    We're not talking about making the Taliban are friends. We're talking about making it so that none of the civilians in Afghanistan want to help the Taliban. Once no one wants to help the Taliban or join the Taliban, we'll basically be at the mop up stage. That's the only way a democracy had ever won an unconventional war. Look at the Brits in Malaysia.
    Right and the more of them we kill, the fewer people that will be willing to help them, or join their ranks.



    And how are you going to do that? Wholescale slaughter will only enrage family members and the youth who are concerned about honor and the like who usually take up arms. Mass murder only works to stop insurgency when you're willing to massacre entire cities like Syria did against the Muslim Brotherhood, and as a democracy that cares about world opinion, we can't do that.

    Point out where I said anything about wholesale slaughter. Thanks in advance.

    Why is it that Libbos always interpret killing the enemy as genocide? I'm thinking it's because ya'll don't really get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #43
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Right and the more of them we kill, the fewer people that will be willing to help them, or join their ranks.
    That can backfire quite badly. If you don't kill them all, and leave a few, well those few will be able to use the families/friends of the dead to boslter their numbers...and that happens often enough in Iraq and Afghanistan for it to be a major concern.
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Which forecasts? The only forecast was that American military would displace the Taliban regime and it did. There was no further forecast. Afghanistan was more or less put on the back burner.
    I'm referring to repeated assessments that things would grow more stable following each new military strategy that was unveiled. Moreover, victory isn't just about temporarily driving a regime from power. It is also about maintaining stability following that outcome.

    Quite frankly, the lack of post-regime planning in Iraq and Afghanistan raise very serious military leadership (vision) and doctrine (components of war planning) questions. That such planning did not take place or was ineffectual if it did in two medium-sized wars suggests that the matter is not mere coincidence.

    Because, according to many Generals, what works in Iraq is bound to work in Afghanistan. This is not counter-insurgency it's much tougher than that.
    I strongly agree.

    We are not taking into consideration the amount of support that the ISI gives to the Taliban leadership; even ranking members in the Pakistan military are Pro-Taliban!
    That is a real problem.

    It's not the military's job to articulate. It's the military's job to eradicate.
    My point is that the military needs to have a big-picture understanding of the conflict at hand. In the absence of such an understanding, they can lose sight of the importance of achieving the objectives set forth, fail to understand the nature of the threats/risks involved--and in Afghanistan, things are very complex and dynamic--fail to appreciate possible scenarios/developments that could emerge, etc. A very strong understanding of the history, the structure of Afghan society, and changes that have taken place in Afghanistan since the British and Soviet military efforts there are crucial to developing a coherent and credible military plan.

    History suggested that a resurgence of Taliban attacks was all but certain. Afghanistan's domestic structure suggested that placing faith in a central government was a questionable proposition.

    Instead, the planning rested on three badly flawed assumptions:

    1. Regime change in Afghanistan could immediately lead to a stable, democratic, pluralistic society (neoconservative outlook that is overly idealistic)
    2. A central government could readily gain legitimacy and take charge in Afghanistan
    3. Modern technology rendered the need for sizable manpower and the historic experience of the British and Soviets obsolete

    Contrary to what has become a sorry litany of excuses flowing from Afghanistan, I believe it is those three flawed assumptions that have done much to produce the present outcome. The outcome is as much a product of bad planning/poor understanding/wishful assumptions as it is anything that the Taliban have done.

    Hopefully, given the stakes involved, the new strategy will cast aside those three assumptions and work with the Afghanistan that is, not the one that is wished for.

  5. #45
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Right and the more of them we kill, the fewer people that will be willing to help them, or join their ranks.






    Point out where I said anything about wholesale slaughter. Thanks in advance.

    Why is it that Libbos always interpret killing the enemy as genocide? I'm thinking it's because ya'll don't really get it.
    Well when the majority of the country identify themselves with the enemy then killing them becomes genocide - please believe me my county successfully committed genocide against a whole nation of people
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Right and the more of them we kill, the fewer people that will be willing to help them, or join their ranks.
    Historically that is not the case in these situations.



    Point out where I said anything about wholesale slaughter. Thanks in advance.

    Why is it that Libbos always interpret killing the enemy as genocide? I'm thinking it's because ya'll don't really get it.
    Get what exactly? that the only two proven ways to deal with an insurgency is winning hearts and minds or mass murder?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  7. #47
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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    That can backfire quite badly. If you don't kill them all, and leave a few, well those few will be able to use the families/friends of the dead to boslter their numbers...and that happens often enough in Iraq and Afghanistan for it to be a major concern.
    Not unless you destroy their will to fight. There were plenty of ex-Confederates that still hated the United States and wanted to fight, but they knew they were defeated and didn't possess the will to fight anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Historically that is not the case in these situations.
    Show us some examples.





    Get what exactly? that the only two proven ways to deal with an insurgency is winning hearts and minds or mass murder?

    Again, let's see some examples that prove you correct. Thanks in advance.

    Please, be specific, because that's an idiotic notion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Well when the majority of the country identify themselves with the enemy then killing them becomes genocide - please believe me my county successfully committed genocide against a whole nation of people
    No, it's not genocide. It's killing the enemy. Tha Afghans that want to side with the Taliban are the enemy. It's just that simple. It's a fundemental reality of warfare that will enver change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Tries New Tack Against Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    But you guys can't remain in Afghanistan and Iraq forever. When you leave it could end up in a worse scenario.
    We're still in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc.

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