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Thread: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Here'd be my question.

    First, lets say hypothetically they did punch the guy. Lets even you and I have no issue with that fact. However, when questioned about it they lie, officially, to their commanding officer and later its found out to be a lie.

    Do you think they should be charged or not?

    Second, if you answered "No, they should not be charged", what was your stance on the crimes of this man:



    You know, the guy that the Republicans in congress went after, a thing many republicans/conservatives greatly agreed with, based on the notion that we are a people under a RULE OF LAW and that breaking the law...even if you're doing it to cover up something that was not at all illegal...is illegal.

    Third, if you answered yes, what do you think of people this sign is supposed to be referencing:



    Since I keep hearing in the Immigration debate that its important that every single one of them over here is punished because they broke the law, and it doesn't matter what reason they broke the law because we are a country of LAWS and those laws must be followed.

    Both sides are right, we DON'T know the facts of the case. All we know is this, there is enough evidence that these guys:



    the marines decided it was worth while to bring charges forth. So all those that answered yes please, tell me, why is it that you don't care about the Rule of Law and why you don't trust the above people's decisions on whether there's a potential violation of said law?

    Do you hate the Military? Is that it? Are you anti-american (I figure I'd just join in the ridiculous demonization ride with you all)

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    OK, based on what has been said thus far, and looking to history as an example of previous cases where servicemen were being charged for something they did in the line of duty, I strongly believe all charges against the SEALs will be dropped at some point in the future.

    Why?

    Because if those who serve in the military begin getting prosecuted successfully every time something went awry during a war time campaign, we'd have a very skeptical, weak military always afraid to pull the trigger. That would be far more damaging to our military effectiveness than the 'benefits' (if there are any) of prosecuting two Navy SEALs for capturing a most wanted terrorist.

    We can cement this comment to the archives, but mark my words, all charges will be dropped at some point in the future. That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it!
    Again, you are falling into the trap of thinking the charges stem from hitting a terrorist. The investigation started there, but that is not where the charges stem from. The charges stem from the the appearance that the Seals lied to the investigation(whether they actually did or not will be determined in their court marshal, which I repeat the Seals themselves requested). Lying to an investigation is a serious charge, and one that cannot be let slide.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Again, you are falling into the trap of thinking the charges stem from hitting a terrorist. The investigation started there, but that is not where the charges stem from. The charges stem from the the appearance that the Seals lied to the investigation(whether they actually did or not will be determined in their court marshal, which I repeat the Seals themselves requested). Lying to an investigation is a serious charge, and one that cannot be let slide.
    What people need to do is separate the emotion of hatred for terrorist/ enemies and what the SOP, rules of engagement, laws defined in the UCMJ, and international norms of behavior are for those we place in the line of duty to defend this nation and kill or “arrest” the enemy. These Special Forces troops are the most highly trained and the best of the best hence they should have “known better” than try and cover up an action they took from investigators. We need to put aside our sympathies for our people and not let our emotions cloud what is right and what is wrong even if we do understand why and how they allegedly did what they did.

    Not that The My Lai Incident ( some say ‘Massacre ) is the same as this case but I can understand emotionally and intellectually what and why Lt. Calley did what he allegedly did yet whatever those villagers did before his troops got to their village his alleged order to render them parallel to the ground was not proper. These SEALS should not have allegedly lied
    Last edited by F107HyperSabr; 03-31-10 at 10:26 PM.
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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    These SEALS should not have allegedly lied
    Do you mean, "If the allegations are found to be true, the SEALs would be wrong to have lied?" Because the way you have it there's a nice liberal spin, as though you are stating an allegation as a fact.

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Do you mean, "If the allegations are found to be true, the SEALs would be wrong to have lied?" Because the way you have it there's a nice liberal spin, as though you are stating an allegation as a fact.
    Would you agree that if the Seals are found to have lied to an official investigation and obstructed justice(I forget if it's one or two who have the obstruction justice charge), that this is a very serious matter and does deserve action on the part of the Navy?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    This is so PC stupid. The Seal who punched the terrorist/prisoner should get punished for stupidity, if anything. He could have beat the hell out of the guy while they were bringing him in. But, once the guy was in custody it was goddamn stupid of him to hit him then. And then doubly stupid for the other Seals to lie for him.

    They will probably get some punishment but, I think a court martial would be extreme. It's not like this is a real trial. It's a military trial and they certainly take care of their own... usually.
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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Do you mean, "If the allegations are found to be true, the SEALs would be wrong to have lied?" Because the way you have it there's a nice liberal spin, as though you are stating an allegation as a fact.
    Bag the hyperbolic "liberal spin" crap. No, not I nor you know if they indeed "lied". Maybe it will turn out that they bent or maybe even fractured a rule oR procedure during the detainment of the" nice " terrorist fellow. If they did fracture a rule and they AND are shown to have lied about it they may have to be chastised for that. I would hope that if they are found in viiolation of he rule against lieing that they are mildly chastised. That 's all.

    And people nned to end this "liberal" vs "conservative" crap when it comes to our national security. If you notice I did not bring partisanship into this discussion and I am not happy if someone else does. There are enough topics around where we can play the partisan game..... This one is not it !!!!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Would you agree that if the Seals are found to have lied to an official investigation and obstructed justice(I forget if it's one or two who have the obstruction justice charge), that this is a very serious matter and does deserve action on the part of the Navy?
    Because I value integrity, depending on the circumstances of the trial and if they are indeed found guilty, I would agree that a reprimand take place. Maybe a demotion -- that being the most severe reprimand. But again, none of us seem to know what or why they allegedly lied. If they are found to have lied, then the severity of the reprimand should be based on what type of lie it was. And don't give me, "well, they lied!" BS... because every single one of us has lied at some point or another. So I'd really like to know what they allegedly lied about, if they did lie at all.

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Funny thing is if they did get a demotion, if I were their commanding officer I'd immediately turn around and promote them for capturing a most wanted terrorist.

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    Re: Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    Because I value integrity, depending on the circumstances of the trial and if they are indeed found guilty, I would agree that a reprimand take place. Maybe a demotion -- that being the most severe reprimand. But again, none of us seem to know what or why they allegedly lied. If they are found to have lied, then the severity of the reprimand should be based on what type of lie it was. And don't give me, "well, they lied!" BS... because every single one of us has lied at some point or another. So I'd really like to know what they allegedly lied about, if they did lie at all.
    Does not matter what they lied about. You do not do that during an investigation, period. No matter what is being investigated, the lie is much more severe than the actual charge.

    Next point: since the Seals themselves bumped this from NJP(Captain's Mast in this case) to a court marshal, I don't see a guilty verdict resulting in anything other than a discharge.

    Last point: it is also important to understand that the lying and obstruction of justice charges did not magically happen. We do not know a lot of details, since the DOJ is rightly not commenting, but we do know this from the article in the OP of this thread:

    Another three SEALs two officers and an enlisted sailor have been identified by investigators as witnesses but have not been charged.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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