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Thread: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

  1. #51
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    the reid bill, in my opinion, contains some plusses:

    1. pre existing conditions

    2. portability

    3. coverage for 25 mil

    4. rewards for quality over quantity, preventive care

    5. end yearly caps

    6. end lifetime caps

    7. relieve emergency rooms, uncompensated care

    8. end recision, the dumping of a patient once he or she develops a tumor, for example

    ***

    the negatives held herein, however, are innumerable

    and huge:

    25 bil in mandates on already bankrupt states

    half a tril cuts to m and m

    taxes---on benefits, on employers, on employees, on device makers, on drug makers, on the insured, on the uninsured, on payroll, on personal savings accounts over $2500, limiting the deduction for catastrophic costs, more

    mandates on individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford

    fines if they don't, with criminalization and threats of jail time down the road

    20 mil still uncovered

    premiums up---says cbo

    higher gdp devoted to health care---says cbo---up to 21.something percent

    10 years of revenue vs 6 years of benefits

    shell game, ponzie scheme

    cbo---savings likely never to occur

    doc fix, off budget, a quarter tril, passed in the house on thursday, under media blackout

    jobs killer---taxes, fines, mandates, fees

    taxes on upper, middle and lower classes

    the real cost, 10 years of revenue vs 10 years of outlays---2014 to 2024---2.5 tril

    the cost curve steepened up---cbo

    rationing of services---mammograms, cervical screenings

    taxpayer money for abortion

    weak enforcement against illegals

    no tort reform, defensive medical costs not addressed

    no purchase across state lines

    medicaid expanded to cover 15 mil more people, unfunded

    obama says---my budget's balanced, you guys in CA and NV can pick up the tab

    medicaid death rates---250% higher for cancer patients, 50% higher for cardio

    medicaid is the ghetto of insurance plans

    medicare advantage, home to 11 mil---zeroed out

    reid has a one year doc fix, after which reimbursements drop 23%

    doctor shortage

    medicare doctors already refuse to treat medicare patients

    reid morphs medicare into medicaid

    kills innovation by punishing pharmaceuticals, device makers and vaccine growers

    medicare costs have skyrocketed 55% in 10 years, will reach 1 tril by 2020---a solid case against govt options

    kills rural care---medicare reimbursement rates are so paltry

    mayo, everyone's model, announced recently it will no longer accept medicare or medicaid

    harvard (obama's alma mater) medical school eviscerates reid---those who support it are "in denial:" costs, curves, crummy care

    david broder, dean of journalists, published a piece today, titled, "budget buster"

    catholic bishops call reid the worst yet, we saw what their eminences did to ms pelosi at 2am

    states can opt out only after paying in

    disincentives for primary care

    40% of primary care doctors will not treat medicare patients

    60% of specialists won't either

    cuts to education and other state run services as CA and NV are suddenly saddled with bil's in liabilities

    states will have to raise taxes

    aarp and ama endorse---in today's times, a political minus

    the CLASS ACT---young folks will have to pay premiums close to grampa's, resulting in healthy folks running away while the ill and aged are eager to join

    louisiana purchase---300 mil bribe for ms landrieu

    ***

    worst of both worlds

    dems are signed on the bottom line under all of the above, with very little chance of passage

    no one around here, for example, will deny or defend any of the poisons detailed above

    this thing is gonna go on for weeks, even months

    every day it's debated is death to the dems

    this bill is a monstrosity, even your liberal acquaintances know it

    reid, baucus, durbin, levin, rockefeller, wyden---they're stuck with it

    pelosi and obama, too

    senate leadership is beginning to realize they're gonna have to take out the PO

    cuzza jiltin joe and stiff neck nelson, amongst others

    yet changes upstairs are very, very difficult

    and pelosi downstairs is gonna be hella pissed

    abortion alone will kill it for her bluedogs

    stupak said---hell to pay

    the bishops back him up

    having to work so hard just to start debate is very telling

    you'll see

    dems are doomed, this bill is the ugliest things america has ever seen

    reaction against it is gonna be huge

    it's already much bigger than/since virginia

    just look at these pages, libs are throwing in the towel

    hang in, friends

    patience
    Well said!

  2. #52
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    ...the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it.


    Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.), a freshman Senator who is fighting to hold his seat in 2010, said he would support health care reform even if it cost him his job.

    Appearing on CNN's "State of the Union," the Colorado Democrat was asked whether he would vote in favor of the legislation even if "every piece of evidence tells you, if you support that bill you will lose your job."

    "Yes," Bennet replied, succinctly.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbs2oeAcG1E&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Sen. Michael Bennet: I'll Risk My Job To Vote For Health Reform[/ame]

    Appointed to the seat after President Obama tapped former Colorado Sen. Ken Salazar (D) to be his Secretary of the Interior, Bennet may have a tricky reelection race. He faces a challenge from the progressive wing of his own party for the nomination, even though his state has only recently trended Democratic.

    Bennet's vote on health care was at one point in time uncertain. But that was months ago. Now the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it.

  3. #53
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah!!!!!




    This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!

    You've got to break out of what I call the sort of 50 plus one pattern of presidential politics which is you have nasty primaries where everybody's disheartened and beaten up. Then you divide the country 45 percent on one side, and 45 percent on the other, and 10 percent in the middle and (unintelligible) and Florida behind. And battle it out and then maybe you eke out a victory of 50 plus one. Then you can't govern. You know, you get Air Force One, I mean there are a lot of nice perks for being president. But you can't, you can't deliver on healthcare. We are not going to pass universal healthcare with a 50 plus one strategy. We're not going to have a serious, bold energy policy of the sort I proposed yesterday unless you build a working majority. - Obama, October, 2007

    Hmm!
    Breitbart.tv FLASHBACK: Obama Says Healthcare Won’t Pass With a Fifty-Plus-One Strategy

  4. #54
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    [CENTER][SIZE="3"]Now the politics seem to dictate that championing reform is smarter than attacking it.
    tell bennet to talk to jiltin joe and stiff neck nelson

    underlying reality---why would the partisans pass all this pain and poison without their pretty PO pot at the end?

    either way, that's the choice facing reid, pelosi and the apologist

    hippocrates---physician, first do no harm

  5. #55
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    the stiff necked nebraskan on abc's stephy this morning:

    stephy---can you live with it?

    stiff neck---no, i voted for debate to begin, not the same as a "yes" vote, if this were the bill i'd have filibustered

    nbc's mtp:

    gregory---votes not there for PO

    difi---we'll move forward, other countries have better care than we do, it's good that the plan is phased in, there are 1st year benefits for subsidies and pre-existers, the exchanges and public options don't start til later, we can watch and change it, there will be free flow of amendments, then must reconcile with house, the national debate begins

    jiltin joe---no one thinks it will pass, every amendment is subject to filibuster, if there's a PO our only resort is filibuster, health care's in crisis but so is the economy, we can't make the economy worse, i'm convinced pre existing provisions won't even guarantee what they promise, the cbo itself says premiums will go up

    gregory---are you, joe, as committed to deficit neutrality in afghanistan (LOL!)?

    joe---wars must be paid for, yes

    gregory---is the PO negotiable?

    whip (head counter) durbin---our goals are extended coverage, affordability, deficit neutrality; insurance companies are making huge profits

    gregory---a trigger?

    durbin---variations on a theme, more goal-itudes, the opt out was just one alternative (past tense)

    fi---no country on earth pays what we do, insurance companies 480% profit, the way things are now are unsustainable, thus a PO, i'd vote for no PO if there were reimbursement rates tied to...

    joe---it's not enough, we extend coverage, that's gotta cost more, we must solve health care but not in a way that worsens the economy

    (note how gregory didn't ask joe if he'd support a trigger, afraid of the answer, the jilter's already declared)

    joe (continued)---when competitive capitalism fails we regulate and litigate, we don't allow govt to step in and operate

    gregory---by christmas?

    durbin---we must
    Last edited by The Prof; 11-22-09 at 01:42 PM.

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    Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening

    Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening

    It's highly unfortunate timing for the Obama administration that two new cancer-screening recommendations have been made by government and independent medical groups in a week where the president is seeking legislation for his historic health-care reform bill. While the measures have sparked intense controversy, it's irresponsible and disingenuous for Republicans to label these new guidelines as partisan-based and illustrative of the sort of "rationing" they claim reform will bring. Just like global warming, health-care has become overly politicized, and some things simply aren't political. We all breath the same air, drink the same water, and can contract cancer regardless of political persuasion.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I can't say I'm entirely pleased about it. We need healthcare reform, but I don't think this is the right way to go about it.
    With the conservative Republicans around, is there a "right way" ??
    My idea is to evaluate the civilized worlds (France, Germany, England, Spain,Sweden,Canada,Israel, Korea,Japan, on and on)take on this health care and then copy it, with only a few tweaks.
    This should have happened years ago..but the political party of "NO" was around then as well.

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    Re: Republican Lies and Deception Over Cancer Screening

    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down View Post
    It's highly unfortunate timing for the Obama administration that two new cancer-screening recommendations have been made by government and independent medical groups in a week where the president is seeking legislation for his historic health-care reform bill.
    it sure is

    LOL!

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    Chuck Schumer says health care reform that includes public option can pass Senate

    ...health care reform that includes a public option can pass the Senate.

    WASHINGTON — Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer says health care reform that includes a public option can pass the Senate.

    Schumer says he is assuring his more conservative Democratic colleagues that the public option included in the Senate bill is "modest" and not the first step in a government takeover of the insurance industry.

    Schumer is also reminding fellow Democratic senators that the bill would allow states to opt out of the public option. He asks that they not prevent his constituents in New York from getting the public option they desire.

    Schumer predicts that at the end of the debate, the party will come together to support that version of a public option.

    Schumer appeared Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation."

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    schumer---LOL!

    exactly what would you expect him to say?

    on mtp this morning, the number one progressive proponent of the robust PO referred to the opt out in the past tense

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