Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 130

Thread: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

  1. #41
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    This was a cloture vote. Cloture puts a time limit on debate. By doing so, it allows the Senate to start debate without fear of a filibuster. But technically, cloture limits debate.
    cloture limits debate

    LOL!

    frankly, friend, you don't know what you're talking about

  2. #42
    Professor
    Missouri Mule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Hot Springs, Arkansas
    Last Seen
    04-02-13 @ 09:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,406

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You think that is funny. You think it is funny to jail people because they won't buy health insurance?

    Can the gulags and fire squads be far behind?

    There has never been a government program in our history that has come in at or under budget. This will bankrupt our nation and you will have to use a wheelbarrow to cart your bails of money to the grocery store to buy groceries. We are on the cusp of repeating the Weimer Republic with our worthless currency. There is no way in hell to pay for this insanity.

    Welcome to American communism under Chairman Obama. I hope you enjoy this bitter fruit. You are the one who will pay the price for this political treachery by this band of gangsters in Washington, D.C. Eventually the commissars and their jack booted thugs will come for you. That is the way of all modern revolutions. Study your history.

    And BTW, they only need 51 votes to pass this legislation. 60 was needed for cloture. Otherwise it would have been filibustered to death. That is no longer necessary.
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 11-22-09 at 12:54 AM.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

  3. #43
    Puer Aeternus
    Tsunami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    11-08-16 @ 04:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,132

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    From the articles I am reading they still need another 60 votes to close the debate, so it seems it is far from over and we may yet see that filibuster threat carried out.
    Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.

  4. #44
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    the reid bill, in my opinion, contains some plusses:

    1. pre existing conditions

    2. portability

    3. coverage for 25 mil

    4. rewards for quality over quantity, preventive care

    5. end yearly caps

    6. end lifetime caps

    7. relieve emergency rooms, uncompensated care

    8. end recision, the dumping of a patient once he or she develops a tumor, for example

    ***

    the negatives held herein, however, are innumerable

    and huge:

    25 bil in mandates on already bankrupt states

    half a tril cuts to m and m

    taxes---on benefits, on employers, on employees, on device makers, on drug makers, on the insured, on the uninsured, on payroll, on personal savings accounts over $2500, limiting the deduction for catastrophic costs, more

    mandates on individuals to buy for themselves that which they can't afford

    fines if they don't, with criminalization and threats of jail time down the road

    20 mil still uncovered

    premiums up---says cbo

    higher gdp devoted to health care---says cbo---up to 21.something percent

    10 years of revenue vs 6 years of benefits

    shell game, ponzie scheme

    cbo---savings likely never to occur

    doc fix, off budget, a quarter tril, passed in the house on thursday, under media blackout

    jobs killer---taxes, fines, mandates, fees

    taxes on upper, middle and lower classes

    the real cost, 10 years of revenue vs 10 years of outlays---2014 to 2024---2.5 tril

    the cost curve steepened up---cbo

    rationing of services---mammograms, cervical screenings

    taxpayer money for abortion

    weak enforcement against illegals

    no tort reform, defensive medical costs not addressed

    no purchase across state lines

    medicaid expanded to cover 15 mil more people, unfunded

    obama says---my budget's balanced, you guys in CA and NV can pick up the tab

    medicaid death rates---250% higher for cancer patients, 50% higher for cardio

    medicaid is the ghetto of insurance plans

    medicare advantage, home to 11 mil---zeroed out

    reid has a one year doc fix, after which reimbursements drop 23%

    doctor shortage

    medicare doctors already refuse to treat medicare patients

    reid morphs medicare into medicaid

    kills innovation by punishing pharmaceuticals, device makers and vaccine growers

    medicare costs have skyrocketed 55% in 10 years, will reach 1 tril by 2020---a solid case against govt options

    kills rural care---medicare reimbursement rates are so paltry

    mayo, everyone's model, announced recently it will no longer accept medicare or medicaid

    harvard (obama's alma mater) medical school eviscerates reid---those who support it are "in denial:" costs, curves, crummy care

    david broder, dean of journalists, published a piece today, titled, "budget buster"

    catholic bishops call reid the worst yet, we saw what their eminences did to ms pelosi at 2am

    states can opt out only after paying in

    disincentives for primary care

    40% of primary care doctors will not treat medicare patients

    60% of specialists won't either

    cuts to education and other state run services as CA and NV are suddenly saddled with bil's in liabilities

    states will have to raise taxes

    aarp and ama endorse---in today's times, a political minus

    the CLASS ACT---young folks will have to pay premiums close to grampa's, resulting in healthy folks running away while the ill and aged are eager to join

    louisiana purchase---300 mil bribe for ms landrieu

    ***

    worst of both worlds

    dems are signed on the bottom line under all of the above, with very little chance of passage

    no one around here, for example, will deny or defend any of the poisons detailed above

    this thing is gonna go on for weeks, even months

    every day it's debated is death to the dems

    this bill is a monstrosity, even your liberal acquaintances know it

    reid, baucus, durbin, levin, rockefeller, wyden---they're stuck with it

    pelosi and obama, too

    senate leadership is beginning to realize they're gonna have to take out the PO

    cuzza jiltin joe and stiff neck nelson, amongst others

    yet changes upstairs are very, very difficult

    and pelosi downstairs is gonna be hella pissed

    abortion alone will kill it for her bluedogs

    stupak said---hell to pay

    the bishops back him up

    having to work so hard just to start debate is very telling

    you'll see

    dems are doomed, this bill is the ugliest things america has ever seen

    reaction against it is gonna be huge

    it's already much bigger than/since virginia

    just look at these pages, libs are throwing in the towel

    hang in, friends

    patience

  5. #45
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    from politico, tonite, after the vote

    Democrats hold line, but cracks show - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

    Reid has promised a “free-wheeling, wide-open amendment process,” said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who added that Republicans are likely to attempt to filibuster each amendment, meaning Reid would have to hold together his 60 votes time and again.

    "The battle has just begun," McConnell added. "The American people are asking us to stop this bill, and we are going to do anything and everything we can to prevent this measure from becoming law."

    But as it has for months, the public option remained the greatest obstacle to passing a bill.

    Two of those who voted yes on Saturday – Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) and Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.) -- have already said they’d join a filibuster of the current bill and both have raised objections to the public option.

  6. #46
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    broder's "budget buster:"

    David S. Broder - David Broder: Fears of health-reform cost are justifiable

    It's simply not true that America is ambivalent about everything when it comes to the Obama health plan.

    The day after the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) gave its qualified blessing to the version of health reform produced by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Quinnipiac University poll of a national cross section of voters reported its latest results.

    This poll may not be as famous as some others, but I know the care and professionalism of the people who run it, and one question was particularly interesting to me.

    It read: "President Obama has pledged that health insurance reform will not add to our federal budget deficit over the next decade. Do you think that President Obama will be able to keep his promise or do you think that any health care plan that Congress passes and President Obama signs will add to the federal budget deficit?"

    The answer: Less than one-fifth of the voters -- 19 percent of the sample -- think he will keep his word. Nine of 10 Republicans and eight of 10 independents said that whatever passes will add to the torrent of red ink. By a margin of four to three, even Democrats agreed this is likely.

    That fear contributed directly to the fact that, by a 16-point margin, the majority in this poll said they oppose the legislation moving through Congress.

    I have been writing for months that the acid test for this effort lies less in the publicized fight over the public option or the issue of abortion coverage than in the plausibility of its claim to be fiscally responsible.

    This is obviously turning out to be the case. While the CBO said that both the House-passed bill and the one Reid has drafted meet Obama's test by being budget-neutral, every expert I have talked to says that the public has it right. These bills, as they stand, are budget-busters.

    Here, for example, is what Robert Bixby, the executive director of the Concord Coalition, a bipartisan group of budget watchdogs, told me: "The Senate bill is better than the House version, but there's not much reform in this bill. As of now, it's basically a big entitlement expansion, plus tax increases."

    Here's another expert, Maya MacGuineas, the president of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget: "While this bill does a better job than the House version at reducing the deficit and controlling costs, it still doesn't do enough. Given the political system's aversion to tax increases and spending cuts, I worry about what the final bill will look like."

    These are nonpartisan sources, but Republican budget experts such as former CBO director Douglas Holtz-Eakin amplify the point with specific examples and biting language. Holtz-Eakin cites a long list of Democratic-sponsored "budget gimmicks" that made it possible for the CBO to estimate that Reid's bill would reduce federal deficits by $130 billion by 2019.

    Perhaps the biggest of those maneuvers was Reid's decision to postpone the start of subsidies to help the uninsured buy policies from mid-2013 to January 2014 -- long after taxes and fees levied by the bill would have begun.

    Even with that change, there is plenty in the CBO report to suggest that the promised budget savings may not materialize. If you read deep enough, you will find that under the Senate bill, "federal outlays for health care would increase during the 2010-2019 period" -- not decline. The gross increase would be almost $1 trillion -- $848 billion, to be exact, mainly to subsidize the uninsured. The net increase would be $160 billion.

    But this depends on two big gambles. Will future Congresses actually impose the assumed $420 billion in cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and other federal health programs? They never have.

    And will this Congress enact the excise tax on high-premium insurance policies (the so-called Cadillac plans) in Reid's bill? Obama has never endorsed them, and House Democrats -- reacting to union pressure -- turned them down in favor of a surtax on millionaires' income.

    The challenge to Congress -- and to Obama -- remains the same: Make the promised savings real, and don't pass along unfunded programs to our children and grandchildren.

  7. #47
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Yeah!!!!!




    This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!
    Last edited by Catawba; 11-22-09 at 03:30 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #48
    Conservative Independent
    DarkWizard12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tyler TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,571

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yeah!!!!!




    This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!
    a Pyrrhic victory, if there ever was one.

    you are for all ounce and purposes, lost the war! The real hurdle is to close debate. You didn't get one single republican vote and Joe Lieberman is going to kill the public option. This health bill will become nothing more than an allocation of money, and a large amount of money at that.

    Or, debate could last to next november and then, kill the bill.

    If you got 61, 62, or 63 votes, you would actually have a chance. the only time you could get 60 was to open debate.

    Reality bites, doesn't it?
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 11-22-09 at 03:51 AM.

  9. #49
    Anti-Hypocrite
    molten_dragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,389

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    You think that is funny. You think it is funny to jail people because they won't buy health insurance?

    Can the gulags and fire squads be far behind?

    There has never been a government program in our history that has come in at or under budget. This will bankrupt our nation and you will have to use a wheelbarrow to cart your bails of money to the grocery store to buy groceries. We are on the cusp of repeating the Weimer Republic with our worthless currency. There is no way in hell to pay for this insanity.

    Welcome to American communism under Chairman Obama. I hope you enjoy this bitter fruit. You are the one who will pay the price for this political treachery by this band of gangsters in Washington, D.C. Eventually the commissars and their jack booted thugs will come for you. That is the way of all modern revolutions. Study your history.

    And BTW, they only need 51 votes to pass this legislation. 60 was needed for cloture. Otherwise it would have been filibustered to death. That is no longer necessary.
    I don't think it's funny to jail people who won't buy health insurance. It's quite a stupid idea in fact.

    But to suggest that communism (as well as gulags and firing squads) is close behind is pretty ludicrous.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #50
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This opens the path to Congress passing Health Care Reform with a simple majority of 51 votes!!!
    51 votes---LOL!

    another obamacare apologist who has no clue what's going on, what a surprise

    to believe that 60 votes are not needed to end debate and get to a vote requires an almost stunning absence of...

    well...

    a tv, for one thing

    LOL!

    a rudimentary understanding of high school civics is another

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •