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Thread: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

  1. #11
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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Easy Target View Post
    You don't understand. A filibuster is when you block a vote for cloture. This was the vote for cloture. Now they only need 50 votes plus Biden to pass it from the Senate. There will be no filibuster as the chance has been missed.
    Cloture is a vote to end debate, this is a vote to start it. Or else, the republicans would have had Leiberman, and boom.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Cloture is a vote to end debate, this is a vote to start it. Or else, the republicans would have had Leiberman, and boom.
    This was a cloture vote. Cloture puts a time limit on debate. By doing so, it allows the Senate to start debate without fear of a filibuster. But technically, cloture limits debate.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Yea it is, now the filibuster will actually go into affect. The debate is going to go on, and on, and on, untill next november.
    Huh?

    This vote prevents a filibuster.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Easy Target View Post
    You don't understand. A filibuster is when you block a vote for cloture. This was the vote for cloture. Now they only need 50 votes plus Biden to pass it from the Senate. There will be no filibuster as the chance has been missed.
    Right - except "cloture" is the vote to prevent a filibuster.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The bill passed the first hurdle with 60 votes- exactly the number needed, and exactly the number needed to end a filibuster.

    Not a single Republican voted in favor. 3 Democrats (or 2 Democrats and an Independent Democrat) voted for the bill to clear but will not vote to end a filibuster if the public option is included.
    But a filibuster is no longer an option. This vote ended that possibility.

    Still doesn't mean 50 Senators won't vote to strip out a public option though.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Hmmm....Looks like that "$130 billion surplus" this bill is suppose to generate has been wiped out-

    Republicans assail US health care bill, Democrats set first vote in Senate Saturday night

    Thu Nov 19, 9:56 PM
    By David Espo, The Associated Press

    -----------------

    Given the political stakes, there was disagreement even about the bill's cost.


    Democrats put the price tag at $979 billion, higher than the $849 billion figure they had cited Wednesday as the cost of expanding coverage to 31 million who now lack insurance. Republicans calculated it at more like $1.5 trillion over a decade, and said even that was understated because Reid decided to delay implementation of some of the bill's main features until 2014.

    --------
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    misterman: this was a vote to begin debate. Cloture is a vote to end debate. This vote was not a cloture vote.

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    cloture - The only procedure by which the Senate can vote to place a time limit on consideration of a bill or other matter, and thereby overcome a filibuster. Under the cloture rule (Rule XXII), the Senate may limit consideration of a pending matter to 30 additional hours, but only by vote of three-fifths of the full Senate, normally 60 votes.

    U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Glossary > cloture
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    misterman: this was a vote to begin debate. Cloture is a vote to end debate. This vote was not a cloture vote.
    Yes, this was a cloture vote. Cloture votes require a 3/5ths majority, i.e. 60 votes, to win.

    See for yourself:

    Here's the roll call. The bill is H.R. 3590, which was a bill the House passed on an unrelated subject - the Senate amended that entire bill by erasing it and replacing it with their health care plan, to make it easier to conference it with the House.

    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

    Here's the Senate vote on video.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5EC5BMdVn8"]YouTube- [ part 1] H.R. 3590 health care bill cloture roll call vote[/ame]

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    Re: Historic health care bill clears Senate hurdle

    Here's how this works: cloture puts a time limit on debate (not really ending it, but limiting it). That prevents the threat of a filibuster. With no filibuster, the Senate can start debating the bill. Without it, the Senate would probably just give up because of the threat of a filibuster.

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